Trend...for thought.

[Five7Jaan]

[NOTE: This is a sensitive topic, so don't overreact.]

They are prominent in Hollywood movies nowadays. [Chameli, Rules etc.] Well, at least their image is not as tarnished as per the majority of the Indian culture requires.

We know that they are declared as obscene and ridiculous by the religious traditions.

Nevertheless, the concept of "chakas" has been around for centuries.

How comfortable are you with homosexuality? Granted [from observing the other posts on the website] that we need a Sexual, Women and just about every other Revolution...is India ever going to be par with the western thinking of any actual "acceptance" or is this just a trend for now?



-Five7Jaan

[CtrlAltDel]

You have a certain misconception: "Chakka" is hindi for "Eunuch" ie "Castrated Men" or in cruder words "men with the 'family jewels'(!) cut off". sometimes they become that way due to genetic reasons (born hermaphrodites).



Homosexuals are normal and functional men or women who happen to be attracted to people of their same sex. Thats it.



most religions/cultures spit fire on homosexual behaviour saying its against "nature". Thats bullshit. Its as normal as heterosexual behaviour. This line of thinking against homosexuality originates in the Semetic religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism).



Hinduism had traditionally recognized homosexuality as one of the types of sexual behavior. Read Kamasutra and u'l see i am right.



the hindu fundus or fanatics who call homosexuality (or anything related to sex) against Indian "Culture" do not realize that they are parroting the Victorian moral values taught by the Brits.

[Five7Jaan]

I am sorry. You are right on the dot when you defined 'chakka'; but I was trying to tie it in with the "oustide cultural norm issues".

the hindu fundus or fanatics who call homosexuality (or anything related to sex) against Indian "Culture" do not realize that they are parroting the Victorian moral values taught by the Brits.

Very interesting because I have never thought of it that way.

Even though, the Semetic religions don't support it and Kamasutra says it normal [I haven't had a chance to read it yet], I was asking whether India will have the 'whatever, i don't care either way' thinking when it comes to it.

[!]

Being in one of the most liberal states in USA, I get to see lesbian and gay couples often. I find that the more masculine of the two women becomes/dresses/behaves like a man between herself and her wife/spouse/whatever.



Similarly, the more feminine of the two men becomes more of a female.. including dressing and walking and talking..



The publicly expressed physical affection between these couples should be seen and felt to understand what it is like for the public.



You should obsevre the children that these couples would have had either from the previous marriages or are adopted.



Now, lets imagine all of these on ourselves with another man/woman. Some of us might find it interesting and infact maybe seductive too !



...then lets go further and imagine our father and another man, our mother and another woman. our sister with one of her girl friends and our brother with one of his boyfriends. If we still have the stomach to imagine, well go ahead and imagine the other dear relatives of ours with thier own sex.



If we can find ourselves feeling 'wow we should be tolerant about all theses people and should not feel nauseated.. for the simple reason that it is normal' well.. go ahead and feel wonderufl about it and do whatevr your law allows you to do...



As for 'my' reaction to all these guys: they have just about everything and get 'bored' in being simply normal. A thouroughly spoilt lot wanting a lot of attention.

[Asli_badmash]

First of all there is a difference between tolerating and accepting a certain behavior. By tolerating something you mean you don’t approve of it but you don’t mind it. By accepting something you mean you accept the behavior and have no issues with it.



Coming to the question of homosexuality; it is a personal question. There have been studies which prove that being gay is not a choice, it has a deeper medical reason. And there are articles which show that being gay is a choice people make because of deep seated relationship issues with the opposite sex. And there are people who would do anybody; they are called bi-sexual. Apart from all this, aren’t we about freedom of expression and equal rights to everybody? The constitution guarantees that to every mortal. So who are you to make choices for people! Everybody has to make their own choices and be responsible for their own actions as long as they don’t infringe on your rights and freedom.



If somebody wants to be bored and become gay (as “!” argues); let them be. That is a choice they have to live with. And remember we only live once; so do what you think is right, don’t be pressurized by the society and its norms. The society’s norms keep changing. As CtrlAtlDel says, Homosexuality was accepted in ancient India, but it is shunned today. So do your thing, stand firm on your beliefs but don’t discriminate.



Also, Chakkas are Eunuch’s; they are neither homosexual nor heterosexual. They are neither man nor woman. There was whole program on Discovery Channel (in USA) about the life of one such person. A person who was born with what looked like a male organ but also had ovaries!



Kings in India and China used to have Eunuchs guard their harems and they played a big role in the Kings life. There have been some very influential Eunuchs who have been the confidants and counsel to Kings and their families. But alas today they roam the roads begging for alms and living a life of misery.



About, Indians becoing OK with gays or Chakkas, I dont see it happening too soon. We Indians let religion rule our life, and religion has been reduced to a social order rather than being a personal experience. Religion these days is like a status symbol. (Oh my god he goes to temple everyday, oh my god he prays five times a day, he is so great.) All As long as we have the mullah, pundits and the Padres dictating us what to do, we will never open our minds. We always want to be the "FROGS IN THE WELL" and have someone else tell us what to do.



Concluding, I have this to say, before you look at an individual in a funny way; try to look at the world from their point of view. If you see an obvious problem, be tolerant and explain your issues, dont discriminate.



~Badmash~



PS: For the records; I am straight as an arrow. I have gay friends and they are wonderful people. I have yet to know a Chakka, but I am sure they are normal people too.

[CtrlAltDel]

The publicly expressed physical affection between these couples should be seen and felt to understand what it is like for the public.

Yes, I admit it is an ambarrassing sight...but in India, even straight couples rarely display affection in public, so there is not question of homosexual couples doing so.

.....and imagine our father and another man, our mother and another woman. our sister with one of her girl friends and our brother with one of his boyfriends. If we still have the stomach to imagine, well go ahead and imagine the other dear relatives of ours with thier own sex.

so, that means whenever you see a gay couple, u imagine the above scenario and feel disgusted! oh boy....you've got an over active mind! maybe u r in the closet, waiting to burst out!

regarding me, well, I would be shocked and stunned if any of the above scenarios come true. but i would not hate or condemn someone just coz i dont approve what they are doing. Maybe after certain time I'll get used to them and tolerate them. I have nothing against gays as long as they dont make a move on me.

I'll use a similar analogy - I come from a vegetarian brahmin family, but i enjoy the occassional carnivore delights. My parents have the same feeling of abhorance for meat, as you have for gays. they do not like the fact that i enjoy meat occassionally. they advice me not to eat it...but to no avail! yet they do not hate me or avoid me or throw me out of the house.

This is called tolerance and this is what we have to display towards people who are different from us- either in religion or caste or clor or sexuality. It would take time before such tolerant attitude permeates a conservative society like india. We tolerate love marriages now, surely a day will come when we tolerate gays too.

If we can find ourselves feeling 'wow we should be tolerant about all theses people and should not feel nauseated.. for the simple reason that it is normal' well.. go ahead and feel wonderufl about it and do whatevr your law allows you to do...

this discussion is not about feeling wonderful about anything. its about letting intelligent adults make their own decisions in life.

As for 'my' reaction to all these guys: they have just about everything and get 'bored' in being simply normal. A thouroughly spoilt lot wanting a lot of attention.

the only reason people find homosexuality odd is coz majority (atleast i hope so!) do not practise it.



being gay is just biology - once apon a time even left-handedness was regarded as a "mark of the devil" and unnatural.



nobody turns gay for attention. this is something which is better to be kept under wraps, given the intolerant society they live in.



neither do people turn gay coz they are "bored" of being straight (i hate the word "normal" here). people are either homosexual, heterosexual or bisexual. it cannot be forced on anybody except in rare cases like peole driven to it in frustration when there is lack of partners of opposite sex. but in such cases there is a likely hood of re-orienting themselves once the cause for frustration is removed.



natural homosexuality exists in animals too.



please read the following links that throw a light on this aspect of zoology:



http://www.rnw.nl/lifestyle/html/gayanimals000808.html



http://www.libchrist.com/other/homosexual/sheepandanimals.html



hope i managed to open some closed minds a bit.