Virgins

[asli_badmash]

why do we need these threads. whhhhy...god or MODs.....whhhhhy

Why not.. give me some good reasons.

[betty]

why do we need these threads. whhhhy...god or MODs.....whhhhhy

Yeah, we seem to have some of these threads in the past...and again now...tired of reading the same things over and over again!!!!

[san]

But on a serious note, sex education has to be addressed. Although it is nice not to corrupt young innocent minds, it is important that they know about the physical and emotional aspects of the deed. Moreover help them know the facts from the myths.



*let me guess the next thread, all those who fake orgasm's raise hands*

[Betty]

But on a serious note, sex education has to be addressed. Although it is nice not to corrupt young innocent minds, it is important that they know about the physical and emotional aspects of the deed. Moreover help them know the facts from the myths.

Agreed - with you and what CAD said.

*let me guess the next thread, all those who fake orgasm's raise hands*

[CtrlAltDel]

*let me guess the next thread, all those who fake orgasm's raise hands*

:lol:



ok san, when r u creating that thread?

[Lucifer]

^^^ Don't all women do that at some point in their lives?

[spamtaneous]

no body has raised hands till now.....

[asli_badmash]

SAN, funny!! So when are you starting that thread and I have something to say about that too...



I didnt know something like this was discussed earlier. I guess I have been away from the board from sometime now.. so I dont know whats happening on it.



~badmash~

[rock_26iin]

Ok, sorry for being late, but this post is addressed to the first post on this thread, about why the word "virgin" always brings to a mind a woman.



According to me (and feel free to call me insane for this view), "virgin" always reminds us of a woman is because of The Virgin Mary...Think about it, she is always have said to be the Virgin mother of God etc etc. So it is but natural, that sub-consciously, we put two-and-two together and end up where we are. Or, it could just be the memes.



P.S. : I hope I didn't step on any toes with this post.

[asli_badmash]

Ok, sorry for being late, but this post is addressed to the first post on this thread, about why the word "virgin" always brings to a mind a woman.

According to me (and feel free to call me insane for this view), "virgin" always reminds us of a woman is because of The Virgin Mary...Think about it, she is always have said to be the Virgin mother of God etc etc. So it is but natural, that sub-consciously, we put two-and-two together and end up where we are. Or, it could just be the memes.

P.S. : I hope I didn't step on any toes with this post.

Its not just about the VIRGIN mary...



Lets do a test... lets pick a random guy and a girl of age 22-25. Who would be more likely to be a VIRGIN...



What do I think.. Guys want to score so will loose thier virginity to any Sheela, tina and mary. But women wont do any tom,_ and harry just like that. You know what I mean... And hence I would say a woman is more likely to be a VIRGIN.



~badmash~

[ycr007]

Just My Twopence But Technically,do men ought to be called virgins if they Jerk off sometimes before getting married?



And taking the definition of Virgin

A virgin is most commonly seen as a person who has not engaged in sexual intercourse. In a stricter sense it is somebody who has not yet engaged in sexual activities (the wider this term is taken, the stricter the definition of virgin). The status of "virginity" (remaining a virgin) is something that is respected and valued in certain smaller segments of society, especially in regards to religious views of retaining one's virginity before marriage

It Applies to both sexes equally.

Just that due to the social stigma,women are taken more seriously (or not) as Virgins.And that has a lot to do with the age-old-yadda-yadda-stuff like 'Gender Equality" etc



I Won't repeat what has to be done to dispel this stigma since it has been already touched upon.But on the Orgasm Issue,I'll say that Even in Unmarried Guys,there is a Tendency to 'Fake' Orgasm While Jerking off,esp. when in Not-So-Familiar Situations.

[asli_badmash]

Just My Twopence But Technically,do men ought to be called virgins if they Jerk off sometimes before getting married?.

Counterpoint: Would women be considered virgins if they have masturbated before marraige? Its almost the same as having sex. The BODY doesnot know what you are up to. Just the mind does!

And taking the definition of Virgin

A virgin is most commonly seen as a person who has not engaged in sexual intercourse. In a stricter sense it is somebody who has not yet engaged in sexual activities (the wider this term is taken, the stricter the definition of virgin). The status of "virginity" (remaining a virgin) is something that is respected and valued in certain smaller segments of society, especially in regards to religious views of retaining one's virginity before marriage

It Applies to both sexes equally..

Not exactly it doesnot apply to both sexes equally and your next point proves it. Also I think you are still a virgin if you havent had sex with another person. (I am leaving the discussion about gays and lesbians out of this and yes I respect your right to do what you please).

Just that due to the social stigma,women are taken more seriously (or not) as Virgins.And that has a lot to do with the age-old-yadda-yadda-stuff like 'Gender Equality" etc .

My point exactly... so why should women be treated differently. And we dont talk about it at all in the Indian society. Its a taboo topic. Would any girl come out openly and say I have explored my sexuality and I am fine with it... not in India! May be in the cosmopolitan cities but India is not all metropolitan cities. The suburban-middle class-uptight-conservative indian families is what makes india... to date.

I Won't repeat what has to be done to dispel this stigma since it has been already touched upon.But on the Orgasm Issue,I'll say that Even in Unmarried Guys,there is a Tendency to 'Fake' Orgasm While Jerking off,esp. when in Not-So-Familiar Situations.

I dont agree with that... Its a common knowledge that it takes lesser for guys to reach an orgasm than a woman. So it is logical to assume and be right that women tend to fake orgasm more then man. In fact I have never know a man who could fake an orgasm.. it is not physically, bilogically and medically impossible! I dont have to say it all... you make sense of it.



~badmash~

[CtrlAltDel]

...Even in Unmarried Guys,there is a Tendency to 'Fake' Orgasm While Jerking off...

eh? kya? how is it possible...?

[Lucifer]

^^^ Second that.

[asli_badmash]

...Even in Unmarried Guys,there is a Tendency to 'Fake' Orgasm While Jerking off...

eh? kya? how is it possible...?

How is it possible?? Its impossible...



Maybe women think men fake orgasms the same way a woman does it... you picture it.. I dont have to be graphical here!



But I cant understand why would a guy want to fake orgasm.. even if he could?

[CtrlAltDel]

But I cant understand why would a guy want to fake orgasm.. even if he could?

the point is, even for some reason he fakes, it wud be apparent that he is faking...

[labelle]

[quote="asli_badmash]My point exactly... so why should women be treated differently. And we dont talk about it at all in the Indian society. Its a taboo topic. Would any girl come out openly and say I have explored my sexuality and I am fine with it... not in India! May be in the cosmopolitan cities but India is not all metropolitan cities. The suburban-middle class-uptight-conservative indian families is what makes india... to date.



[/quote]



i agree with what u say India is a land where kamasutra was written, we have khajrao sculptures which depict the sexual lifes of ppl in the medival era but when it comes to girls admiting their desires is a distant reality since girls are brought up in such a environment where they are taught there being silent is best and that is the symbol of feminity in true sense. she needs to have shram, haya and if she transgresses this like she is cleary labelled as someone with loose morals.

[asli_badmash]

But I cant understand why would a guy want to fake orgasm.. even if he could?

the point is, even for some reason he fakes, it wud be apparent that he is faking...

Maybe some men cant make babies.. so it might not be so evident!! Have you considered that fact.



The fact remains a normal man will not fake an orgasm. Men are designed by nature to have an orgasm by default!



PS: Dont make me spell it out... why some men cant make babies.

[CtrlAltDel]

But I cant understand why would a guy want to fake orgasm.. even if he could?

the point is, even for some reason he fakes, it wud be apparent that he is faking...

Maybe some men cant make babies.. so it might not be so evident!! Have you considered that fact.

:lol:



even those men have orgasms...but they all they wud be firing are blanks

[mark]

why not turn this thread into a story thread.. If you're not a virgin then tell all. if you are then make up a story about how you'd like to pass that particular milestone.. if you have anyone in mind, etc.

[asli_badmash]

even those men have orgasms...but they all they wud be firing are blanks

Well I personally dont know but I have read that some men cant have orgasms. True... Looks impossible but TRUE. Dont know what they call it in medical terms. Maybe RAJOITIS!



Firing blanks is different from not having orgasms.

[lizardking]

even those men have orgasms...but they all they wud be firing are blanks

Well I personally dont know but I have read that some men cant have orgasms. True... Looks impossible but TRUE. Dont know what they call it in medical terms. Maybe RAJOITIS!

Firing blanks is different from not having orgasms.

ya... some men cant have orgasims.... it could be true... but it s known fact that 70% of women between 18-35 did nt ever experience an orgasm.

And i dont think men would actually fake an orgasm, unless its another man he is in the act with, and i am not really sure if thats what we are talking about right now.







away from the topic....... what do u like better? oral?

[CtrlAltDel]

even those men have orgasms...but they all they wud be firing are blanks

Well I personally dont know but I have read that some men cant have orgasms. True... Looks impossible but TRUE. Dont know what they call it in medical terms. Maybe RAJOITIS!

Firing blanks is different from not having orgasms.

ya... some men cant have orgasims.... it could be true...

if ejaculation is not accompanied by an orgasm, i think it cud be a medical condition...

away from the topic....... what do u like better? oral?

haha! bringing it back on topic, i think oral sex shud be encouraged among ppl who want to maintain virginity till marriage...



...have the cake and eat it too...

[lizardking]

even those men have orgasms...but they all they wud be firing are blanks

Well I personally dont know but I have read that some men cant have orgasms. True... Looks impossible but TRUE. Dont know what they call it in medical terms. Maybe RAJOITIS!

Firing blanks is different from not having orgasms.

ya... some men cant have orgasims.... it could be true...

if ejaculation is not accompanied by an orgasm, i think it cud be a medical condition...

away from the topic....... what do u like better? oral?

haha! bringing it back on topic, i think oral sex shud be encouraged among ppl who want to maintain virginity till marriage...

...have the cake and eat it too...

you can have sex and not ejaculate, that is a medical condition, but is nt ejaculation is the point of orgasm in males, unlike in felames. reminds me of this article i was reading in nature the other day... its about the evolutionary importance of female orgasm. i ll post it here.

[lizardking]

Dont know how many of u would actually like to read it but it is quite informative.







Anticlimax



Olivia P. Judson1

BOOK REVIEWED - The Case of the Female Orgasm: Bias in the Science of Evolution



by Elisabeth A. Lloyd



Harvard University Press: 2005. 320 pp. $27.95, £18.95



For men, orgasm is an intimate part of reproduction: ejaculation doesn't usually happen without it. Presumably, male orgasms evolved because, in the past, males who experienced sexual pleasure were more likely to have sex, and so were more likely to sire children. But what about orgasm in women? Women can become pregnant without orgasm; indeed, some women bear lots of children without ever experiencing one. So how has the female orgasm evolved?



There are two basic possibilities. The female orgasm may have evolved under natural selection on females, which is to say that females who have the capacity to reach orgasm have historically had more surviving children than females who do not. Alternatively, it may have evolved as a by-product of natural selection on something else. A number of evolutionary biologists have hypothesized about the former, imagining various ways that orgasm might have enhanced female reproductive success. Elisabeth Lloyd, a philosopher of science at Indiana University, prefers the second.



In The Case of the Female Orgasm, Lloyd champions the notion — first advanced by Donald Symons in 1979 — that orgasm in women is an accidental consequence of the fact that the clitoris develops from tissue that in a male embryo will become the penis. This would mean that women have orgasms just because men do, not because it enhances their reproductive success. Lloyd also mounts a scathing attack on those who have speculated about how orgasm might have been subject to natural selection on females. She accuses them of failures of logic, shoddy data analysis, and a tendency to ignore data they don't like. She says they commit these sins because they are hostage to a variety of unexamined assumptions, the most egregious being 'adaptationism' — an (in her view) absurd and unjustified commitment to natural selection as an explanatory force in evolution.



Lloyd cites several facts to support her contention that female orgasm is a by-product. First, there are no data showing that women who reach orgasm during sex have greater reproductive success than women who do not; moreover, orgasm is unnecessary for conception. Second, during the past 50 years, surveys of Western women have found that although a minority always reach orgasm during copulation, some never do, and everyone else does only sometimes. Third, most women find it easier to reach orgasm through manual stimulation than through stimulation from the penis. Finally, some other female primates, such as the stump-tailed macaque, the bonobo and the chimpanzee, can reach orgasm.



But none of these comes close to dealing a hammer blow to natural selection. Consider the fact that the clitoris develops from the same tissue as the penis. This tells us something about the origin of the clitoris, but little about why it is still here. Once something has arisen, it can still be subject to natural selection. It may be that the clitoris has been modified to help women achieve orgasm. Then again, it may not: we don't know.



Or consider the matter of orgasm and reproductive success. There are no data showing that orgasm enhances reproductive success; but nor are there data showing that it doesn't. What conclusion can we draw? None: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.



Or consider the fact that not all women experience orgasm during sex. Lloyd equates variation in phenotype with proof that natural selection has not acted. But this need not be so: we all have eyes, yet we cannot all see equally well. No one would argue that eyes have not evolved under natural selection on vision.



The sad fact is that, for now, all statements about the evolution of the female orgasm are conjectures in an empirical vacuum. To advance the debate, we need data.



The most obvious approach would be to ascertain whether there is (or was) a link between orgasm and reproductive success. Measuring the relationship between a given trait and reproductive success is difficult in any organism. It is obviously impossible to know whether orgasmic women have tended to have more children than anorgasmic women. The best we can do is try to infer.



The fact that orgasm is not necessary for conception rules out the obvious way that orgasm could enhance reproductive success — but it could have more subtle effects. For example, could orgasm during sex induce ovulation? In mammals such as ferrets and cats, ovulation is induced by stimulation from the male; might it be facultatively induced in humans? As far as I know, such an effect has not been reported for any primate, but then, as far as I know, no one has looked for it.



We also need to know far more about the nature of orgasm. Orgasm is the result of two phenomena: contractions in the pelvic region, and the perception of pleasurable sensations by the brain. Yet we have little understanding of how the two components relate to each other. Moreover, a distinction is often made between clitoral and vaginal orgasm. Whether these are physiologically different — let alone whether they evolved under different selection pressures — is unknown. Indeed, the neuroanatomy of the genital region is poorly understood, and we have scant data on how much it varies among women. Brain scans suggest that different parts of the brain may be involved in orgasm for males and females — which would be consistent with natural selection acting on females directly — but the sample sizes are as yet too small to draw confident conclusions.



To understand the significance of the variation in women's experience of orgasm, we need to know what causes this variation. Is it due to genetic differences in genital anatomy? To differences in the way brains perceive pleasure? To psychological or cultural factors? Or to a physical incompatibility between a woman and her partner(s)? In other words, do some women lack a capacity for orgasm, or is the capacity there but never realized? Again, data are lacking. A recent twin study (K. M. Dunn et al. Biol. Lett. doi:10.1098/rsbl.2005.0308; 2005) suggests there may be a genetic component — if your identical twin has orgasms it's likely that you do too — but whether the effect is due to physiology or psychology is unclear.



And we need to know more about when other primates experience orgasm. Do females in other species have orgasms with some males but not with others? No one knows. Here, too, we need to know how pelvic contractions translate into brain waves. And we need to investigate males as well as females: it is often simply assumed that males in other species have orgasms. Data on other primates will help us to understand the relationship between male and female orgasm, and whether the female orgasm evolved before the split between humans, chimpanzees and bonobos.



In short, it's time to collect data. Without it, the debate will remain like sex sometimes is: furious, empty and anticlimactic.