Hinduism for n00bs

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Today my gf suddenly got interested in hinduism after having watched her father explain to his curious relatives why hindus worship moon. So she asked me some questions hoping that if her dad can give such a good explanation, I ,being a hindu, should be able to give a much better explanation. She asked me why we worship animals. I tried my best to explain and it didn't take her much time to figure out I was speaking through my rear

That made me realize that I do not have any short and sweet and correct answers to explain religion to followers of other faiths. This was not the first time I was asked questions like this and this was not the first time I failed to answer in few words.

So here it is - FAQ on hinduism.

All, please feel free to contribute.



ps: All includes DQ and parinda

[gyanster]

I thought about this earlier.



Hindus worship everything that makes life go on. The circle of life as Mufasa would say, so you respect all beings as they are an integral part of the whole life. If you eat goat, then when you are dead and mix into the ground and grass grows out of ground, they eat you. It is the circle. I am not sure if the Ramayana or Mahabharata were true or not (yes, I know about the NASA pictures.) but they have so many lessons in a story format. You just have to watch today's movies, all of them have a message, so those who wrote these epics knew that the best way to give a sermon is to tell it like a story. And respect every living being and other non-living things that help you get on with life.



My GF who is catholic, asked me why we have to worship Cars etc. I told her that if I have a car, I can get to work, which will help me earn money and help my life. I don't worship it, I respect it by cleaning it and make sure it helps me get on with life and also protect me.



That is my take on it.

[samai]

Why do Hindus worship animals? let me think...



uh,oh.. so your gf is a non-hindu?



There, the first question and a difference between the two of you cause of a different religion that each of you belong to. She would not have had such a question had she been a Hindu !



But, you too should be having similar questions about her religion, unless, ofcourse, she is an atheist. Then, you may have larger problems later in your life, ofcourse



ok, getting back to your question:



An elephant stands for good memory, is it not so? It stands for unity, strength of character and ? I am trying to recollect the info that I have about the animals here..



there is Cow? Rat? Tiger, Durga Devi sits on it, right? Narsimha Swamy's face is that of a tiger? lion?



so?



lets have fun. it is an interesting way to gather info.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

uh,oh.. so your gf is a non-hindu?

There, the first question and a difference between the two of you cause of a different religion that each of you belong to. She would not have had such a question had she been a Hindu !

Parinda, there is nothing wrong in asking questions about other faiths. Infact it is good as it will only improve your understanding of life and religion as a whole and makes you more tolerant.

For example, I have a russian orthodox christian room-mate and we hosted a pakistani sunni for a week... ideal conditions for a debate on religion. We had so many questions about each other religions and both myself and the russian did a good job in answering these questions to the other persons satisfaction, but the paki failed miserably. His only answer to every question was that "You have to believe it because allah said so!". Not much of a debate now is it? He lacks basic knowledge about his own religion and zero knowledge about other religions except what he heard from his maulvi. Frankly speaking, I would have done a better job in answering questions about Islam than what he did. I ended up with a better understanding of orthodox christian philosophy but not much about Islam.
So it is good to question. Not just other faiths but your own faith too. It doesn't make you an infidel.

But, you too should be having similar questions about her religion, unless, ofcourse, she is an atheist. Then, you may have larger problems later in your life, ofcourse

She is athiest by no means. She prays 5 times a day when she has exams but doesn't know answers to simple questions about her faith because she never questioned.

ok, getting back to your question:

An elephant stands for good memory, is it not so? It stands for unity, strength of character and ? I am trying to recollect the info that I have about the animals here..

there is Cow? Rat? Tiger, Durga Devi sits on it, right? Narsimha Swamy's face is that of a tiger? lion?

so?

lets have fun. it is an interesting way to gather info.

^^ Good answer

[samai]

Does it HAVE to be either Mayavi in Parinda's mind and Parinda in Mayavi's mind



Can I NOT be samai, for God's sakes !? gimme a break, please?



thanks.





This is samai. Hi everybody



Henceforth, there IS somebody else called samai, other than MM and parinda.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Does it HAVE to be either Mayavi in Parinda's mind and Parinda in Mayavi's mind

Can I NOT be samai, for God's sakes !? gimme a break, please?

thanks.


This is samai. Hi everybody

Henceforth, there IS somebody else called samai, other than MM and parinda.

Welcome to FH parinda... err samai.

Now back on topic.

I am hoping HP and PMoW will post on this thread.

[samai]

Welcome to FH parinda... err samai.
Now back on topic.
I am hoping HP and PMoW will post on this thread.

sigh.ok. go ahead, believe what you want to.

[samai]

Basics of Hinduism: Why do Hindus worship the cow?



The cow represents the giving nature of life to every Hindu. Honoring this gentle animal, who gives more than she takes, we honor all creatures.



http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Hinduism/id/51447



Hinduism at its core maintains that there is one God and many see It in different ways (Ekam sad viprAH bahuta vadanti). This God is Formless and is beyond the limitations of the comprehension. This is the basis on which many of the great sages meditate on this Supreme Being That is beyond any contours. So why are so many forms ? The God in Its natural form being very difficult to comprehend, leave alone loving that God and worshiping with devotion, the simple minds would certainly need a way through which they could worship the Boundless God in a fairly simplified manner. But at the same time it should not contradict the basis that the God is beyond forms in any way. Hinduism maintains that because of the abundant Grace of the God, It revealed Itself in the Holy symbols for the humans and other creatures to worship. These symbols are easy to comprehend for the minds of the normal human beings, but at the same time they are just symbols than objects themselves, which means that they symbolically indicate the God, Which is beyond the exploration of knowledge. Such symbols are the praNava (aum) which is held in high esteem by all sects of Hindus and the glorious shiva lingam (1) (meaning symbol of Shiva, the God) that is considered the most sacred symbol of worship for the Shaivites. The intention is that the Formless Supreme could be achieved by simpler means of these formless-forms - the symbols.



In a way these Hindu symbols are abstract representation of the God. These are quite closer to the ideal as they form a bridge between the Formless one and the mind that expects a form. The simpler minds benefit better if the God could be correlated with the day to day lives they interact with. The God certainly is Graceful to the upliftment of the creatures, It took various forms in various occasions blessing either in valorous or joyful or yogic postures. There are numerous of these forms that Hindus worship in their temples, which are built in a gigantic manner with the patronage of various emperors that stand as the glorious homes of art and architecture. The mAhEshvara mUrthams (2) are good examples of such forms of God.



In fact the Hindus wear various marks on their forehead that also have spiritual significance. For example the ash that the Shaivites wear represents the ash that the Supreme Flame - Lord Shiva has smeared on Him always. The same way the shrIchUrNa and the tilak have their significance and indications. In essence Hindus achieve the Supreme Things, by simple ways following the symbols.



http://www.shaivam.org/hipsymbol.htm

[samai]

saran@shaivam.org <saran@shaivam.org>



you can write here for any further questions,MM.



got it thru google search.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Hinduism maintains that because of the abundant Grace of the God, It revealed Itself in the Holy symbols for the humans and other creatures to worship. These symbols are easy to comprehend for the minds of the normal human beings, but at the same time they are just symbols than objects themselves, which means that they symbolically indicate the God, Which is beyond the exploration of knowledge

I do not claim to be a scholar in hinduism and am not that well read either, but I am very sure that the above is total bogus. It has been written to appeal to a western audience and the followers of the abrahamic/revealed religions.

From what little understanding I have about Hinduism, it does not make a big distinction between Gods and human beings. God can be born as a human being and man can attain divinity and behind all this there is one person that is running the show.

Symbolism/idol worship was derived from the belief that god is everywhere and in everything. We do not worship stones and animals because it is easy to comprehend god that way, but we believe that *IT* is but a form of god and praying to them is praying to him.

[Guru HP]

Dunno why I missed this earlier. Way to go MM.



To start with, the question on the diverse entities worshipped by hindus. Gyanster's response to this was good, though a very layman's answer. To answer this in more detail and with more reason, I'd have to talk a bit about the evolution of Hinduism as it exists today. Let me give you all a quick rundown of it.



Actually, Hinduism is not a religion to begin with. The actual religion followed by the so-called hindus of today finds its origins in the Sanatana-Dharma (Original religion) of the Indus Valley civilisation. This was a pagan religion which worshipped forces of nature ascribing different qualities to each. Thus we see forces like the 5 elements, heavenly bodies like planets and satellites, animals etc. all being worshipped by the hindus. This led to the development of the pantheon of Vedic dieties. Point to note here...Contrary to what is said colloquially, the pantheon is of dieties and not Gods. Its just the worshipping factor that's common between God and Deities that leads to this misconception. The Vedas refer to these dieties as Devataha (literal translation of Dieties in Sanskrit). Never are they referred to as Paramatma (God). This alone shows that the theory of these dieties being symbols of God so that humans can comprehend Him better, its not all that true and is just a convenient answer someone might have thought of when accosted with this question. I'll talk more about the concept of God vis-a-vis hinduism in a later post here.



Another reason for these misconceptions is a side-effect of what is probably the greatest strength of Hinduism - an open culture. No hindu text tells you what is right and what is wrong. An individual is given the freedom to do as he wishes based on his conscience, which is considered to be the best judge of right and wrong. This, while making hindus one of the most tolerant people in the world and also giving them an unbridled path of spiritual progress, has also contributed in giving rise to some malpractices like the abundant superstitions and fallacies pervading the religion.



There is also the angle of hindu mythology being intermingled too closely for convenience with spiritual facts. Nobody knows whether the Ramayana or Mahabharata happened or not, and even if they were to be true, I have my own reservations on the concept of Rama and Krishna being God. They are milestones in the spiritual and existential evolution of the ideal human being. Note the progressiveness here. The ideal man on the border of Treta Yuga and Dwapara Yuga (Rama) was a man of virtue - a Maryada Purushottam. His conscience was unimpeachable. His sense of priority for his personal life and his duties as a ruler were utopian. And you have the ideal man on the border of Dwapara Yuga and Kali Yuga (Krishna) who has changed with changing times. No longer is he a Maryada Purushottam. He has a keen sense of right and wrong, and on top of it, also knows how to ensure that right prevails by all means. Somehow, these depictions of ideal human beings with changing times were taken way too literally (this too, is one of the negatives of hinduism) and Rama and Krishna have been elevated to the same platform that exists for God, the triumvirate and the pantheon of dieties.



Now, the entire pantheon has lore attached to it individually. This lore exists in texts known as Puranas. And the Puranas are an extensive text of which I don't have much knowledge. But I will definitely add more on this aspect to the FAQ's soon. Each of these dieties is also accorded a certain function in the running of the world. A classical large organisational structure if there are any MBA's around. You have three Vice-Presidents (the triumvirate of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) and a host of managers under them (Agni, Vayu, Varun, the Ashvinis, Kama, Yama, Rahu, Ketu, Surya, Chandra, Shani and the list goes on). Indra is he equivalent of a General Manager. Together they all function from an office called Devalok from where the world is run. God (The CEO of the world) was introduced to the world in their second stage of spiritual development.



More later....

[vakibs]

Hi Mayavi

You are a very smart guy ! I dont think I'd claim to know more about Hinduism than you do



But I think Hinduism is not a uniform faith to be called a religion as such. It is like a river where everything gets merged in. It supports radically different view points and they can coexist through friendly debate. A person might choose to drink water from the river, to dip in the river for a bathe, or swim in the river. Hinduism is open for practice for all types of people.



Questions like can God be given an image for worship (whether the image be of moon or of animal or of anything) is addressed very openly in Hinduism. You may choose to worship a moorthi (idol) but that doesnt make you any less believer of the One-God concept. Does God have any qualities/attributes is also left open ? This is the concept of Nirguna Brahma / Suguna Brahma. Both philosophies coexist in here. More questions such as - Is matter separate from God ? Is the worshipper separate from God ? Is the God separate from Time ? These are all left open. Profound theories exist for supporting all the view points.

[crypt]

Good thread!!! i have been reading every post on these kinds of threads right from the time "Walled Off" was started sometime mid-last year. Loads of mud-slinging and illogical arguments hav prompted me not to even reply to all $h!t. Many topics cam up during this period of time - caste system, relevance of hinduism, superstitons promoted by hinduism like dowry system etc...I will try my best to answer through this post...



"Soul" as they say is the manifestation of divine within one self. The ultimate destination of the soul is moksha (uniting with the supreme one/force) which one can acheive in a number of ways - work, worship etc...As commonly known karma gets accumulated over rebirth's and too some extent determines your deeeds in the current birth...



Questions arise regarding the veracity of such claims...Here comes in the importance of vedas. Everything in Hinduism has to be / can be explained on the basis of these. Maharshis or sages through their powers of recognizing the divinity within them started finding some facts about creation/life in general and used to pass it on to their pupils (Shruti & Smrithi techniques). It has to be noted that there is no "lipi" (writing) involved though written communication was prevalent then. Vyasa maharshi was the person who split the original veda into 4 as we commonly know them rig,sama, yajur & athavana. Rig veda is said to be the oldest known book dated to 2000 BC. But one can safely conclude that vedic teachings were in existence thousands of years before it. The puranas and upanishads disemminate the knowledge from vedas so that it could be easily understandable. It has to be noted that to explain the vedas 6 kinds of skills are required like grammar, science of sounds (shabda shastra), astrology among others. In my opinion only a few dozens of people on this planet can explain all the vedas with their "vedic" meanings...forget about searchin, copying and pasting from google links. People of our kind assign only dictionary meanings like Lord Shiva is the destroyer etc which is obviously the lowest level.



Coming to caste system and hinduism...I would like to point out the difference between an organization and a differentiation (middle class, higher class etc). Caste system existed as an *oraganization* of society from the times of ramayana or even before. There was a good distribution was work in the society so that every1 was employed and no where is it mentioned that one caste is lower than the other. Infact if one looks at "Vishnu Sahasranama", at the end there is a prayer for all the four castes that every1 should attain moksha through the work they do. As always it was people who exploited the system, made their own interpretations and the results are there for every1 to see.



In the light of this, I always feel that anything about Hinduism should be based on the vedas because I am yet to come across a contradiction in them (though with a very limited knowledge). Likewise for things like dowry etc, people cite the examples of hindu gods also taking dowry without knowing the facts behind them. These are all medieval customs ramapant in the society and are not "vedic".



Vedas insist on a vedic style of living which involves nature worship as well. Most of the Ayudhas used by deties all symbolize the nature. So in most prayers we first start by praying nature and then get to praying the actual devatha. Everything can be questioned in hinduism---upanishads are the best example. People ask why are rahu and kethu (scientifically non existant) prayed. Likewise people ask is astrology a quack science. The answer is yes...from the facts we know about this world they are non existant; but who knows there might be another sage somewhere who can explain these uknown facts to the generations to come or we may have even lost them in our past. The upanishads itself describe this beautifully - Any thing prior to its proof-of-existance is belief and later it is science.



One has to be very open minded to seek knowledge about vedas or any religion in general. Simply copying and pasting verses written by whomsoever doesnot help. more on this later. I would like to conclude it by saying:



"Samanvayame sanaatanam, saamarasyame bhaaratiyam".



Let the country grow to greater heights and let us all together be a part of it instead of describing rubbish about some one's mom (or doing such base things) as I have seen in some other thread. I am no one here to suggest ppl wat to do and wat not to do ... but all that I thought was it was unwarrented.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

MM, few pointers for you, first, please do not set stereotypes regarding Muslims based on couple of your acquaintances with not much Islamic knowledge... and yes you just set an example, one of the reasons being because of stereotypes.

Thanks for your pointers twigirl, but if you read my post carefully I am not criticizing muslims, I am only bringing out the importance of questioning. The only reason I mentioned that debate with the pakistani (he is no friend of mine) is because in a debate over religion he lost fair and square due to his lack of knowledge of his own religion. As a true muslim that he claimed he is, he should be able to understand his own religion better and should articulate it to others. And this applies to all, muslims, hindus and christians, equally. We humans, as the most sophisticated creatures on earth, are what we are only because we questioned everything.
Now you may say that every person who practices religion cannot be a scholar. It is true, but then we are not talking about those people and anyway such people seldom debate religion.

Second, Infidelity comes in question when oneness of god is questioned not when someone question things in Islam for further understanding of their religion, in fact, in Islam the more reasonable understanding you have of your faith the more you are rewarded. Third, YES, as a Muslim I do not question the fundamentals of my faith, but I do question things that do not make sense to me, for further reasonable understanding

Why should anything be beyond questioning? If you can question religion, which is god's word, then you can question god himself. unless ofcourse your understanding of the word 'question' itself is different from that of mine. Questioning to me means asking 'Why should we do it?' and not 'How do you justify what we are doing?'. And when you do that, you will enter the realm of an atheist and if your faith is strong, you will come out as a strong believer albeit with a whole new approach to religion.
As an example of why you should question fundamentals: Imagine trying to build a magnificient machine based on perpetual motion that generates power out of nothing! Can you build it? NO. Why? Because, everything is based on the premise that perpetual motion is possible which is not!

Now before you come up with the standard reply (trust me I have been through this too many times) that you dont question existence of god just like you dont ask your mother who your real father is. The answer is, Yes I can, and it can be proved without any doubt.

MUSLIMS RESPECT OTHER RELIGIONS BE IT THE RELIGION OF THE PEOPLE OF THE BOOK OR OTHER LIKE HINDUISM OR BUDDHISSIM.

Knock it off... if you are a true believer then you only believe in allah and that means other God's do not exist, not even Cad. Same applies for christians, hindus and everyone else but there aren't that many 'true believers' in other religions.



ps: We are way off topic here, so if you want to continue this discussion, please start another thread.

[jquader]

I agree with MM saying that Muslims are supposed to question abt things related to their religion and infact this has been ordered by Allah (SWT) to keep the entire knowledge about our religion as well as other religions...



Every Human is not the same... like said by Twirgl, most are stereotypes (in all the religions) n some try to gain knowledge with their age... If one wants to debate on the religions then he/she should have complete knowledge abt their religion and the religion of the person with whom they are arguing... Even I'm not the person who has knowledge about other religion but atleast i have enuff knowledge to argue and prove the concepts of my religion and can try to correct the believes of other's which has logically been proved wrong...



Here I would like to mention a few of the lines said by Zakir Naik



In an inter-religious dialogue between Sri Sri Ravishankar, Founder of the
Art of Living, and Dr. Zakir Naik, Founder of Islamic Research Foundation,
on the topic, "God in Hinduism and Islam", held at Bangalore, the
Islamic scholar has said that Islam believes that "everything is God's"
whereas Hinduism says "everything is God". Quoting Quran, Vedas, Gita and
other scriptures, he has claimed that the concept of God is same in all
religions. Condemning idolatry, he has said that God according to all
religions is almighty and formless and so worshipping idols is wrong. He
would not agree with Sri Sri Ravishankar that an idol is a symbol of
divinity. Dr. Zakir Naik has claimed, "At a higher level of consciousness,
you do not need an image. Islam believes in a formless God. So I think we
have reached the higher level of consciousness". To his charge that Sri Sri
Ravishankar's knowledge of Islam was not authentic, the latter has
confessed, "I may not have read many books as Dr. Zakir Naik has."



So by this I simply wanna say that there exist many people who stuff their heads with whatever comes on their way and some even start calling themselves as "scholars" without questioning.... So here too I agree with Mopheous that "We humans, as the most sophisticated creatures on earth, are what we are only because we questioned everything. "



My next part of the messege is rearding MM's gf who liked the religion based on worshipping animals....

Based on my knowledge by reading and attending a few lectures delivered by Dr. Zakir Naik and other Islamic Scholars who mentioned abt the concept of worshipping in Hinduism I got this thing in my mind that its written no where in the hindu scriptures to worship the animals(i would like to b corrected if i'm wrong with a satement from any of the hindu scriptures), so is it just a misconception that some common people of the hindu religion add into their relegion this worshipping of cows, monkeys n film actors like NTR, chirajeevi n Rajnikanth etc etc?!



While surfing on the net regarding this topic I got another article pertaining to the recognition of true god



CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM





Common Concept of God in Hinduism:



Hinduism is commonly perceived as a polytheistic religion. Indeed, most Hindus would attest to this, by professing belief in multiple Gods. While some Hindus believe in the existence of three gods, some believe in thousands of gods, and some others in thirty three crore i.e. 330 million Gods. However, learned Hindus, who are well versed in their scriptures, insist that a Hindu should believe in and worship only one God.

The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim perception of God is the common Hindus’ belief in the philosophy of Pantheism. Pantheism considers everything, living and non-living, to be Divine and Sacred. The common Hindu, therefore, considers everything as God. He considers the trees as God, the sun as God, the moon as God, the monkey as God, the snake as God and even human beings as manifestations of God!

Islam, on the contrary, exhorts man to consider himself and his surroundings as examples of Divine Creation rather than as divinity itself. Muslims therefore believe that everything is God’s i.e. the word ‘God’ with an apostrophe ‘s’. In other words the Muslims believe that everything belongs to God. The trees belong to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, the monkey belongs to God, the snake belongs to God, the human beings belong to God and everything in this universe belongs to God.

Thus the major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim beliefs is the difference of the apostrophe ‘s’. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God’s.



2. Concept of God according to Hindu Scriptures:



We can gain a better understanding of the concept of God in Hinduism by analysing Hindu scriptures.

BHAGAVAD GITA

The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita.

Consider the following verse from the Gita:

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."
[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]

The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.

UPANISHADS:

The Upanishads are considered sacred scriptures by the Hindus.

The following verses from the Upanishads refer to the Concept of God:

"Ekam evadvitiyam"
"He is One only without a second."
[Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1]1

"Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah."
"Of Him there are neither parents nor lord."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 6:9]2

"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19]3

The following verses from the Upanishad allude to the inability of man to imagine God in a particular form:

"Na samdrse tisthati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam."

"His form is not to be seen; no one sees Him with the eye."
[Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:20]4


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 447 and 448]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 1 ‘The Upanishads part I’ page 93]

2[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page 263.]

3[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 736 & 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]

4[The Principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 737]
[Sacred Books of the East, volume 15, ‘The Upanishads part II’ page no 253]





THE VEDAS
Vedas are considered the most sacred of all the Hindu scriptures. There are four principal Vedas: Rigveda, Yajurveda, Samveda and Atharvaveda.



Yajurveda
The following verses from the Yajurveda echo a similar concept of God:


"na tasya pratima asti
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]5

"shudhama poapvidham"
"He is bodyless and pure."
[Yajurveda 40:8]6

"Andhatama pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste"
"They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."
[Yajurveda 40:9]7

Sambhuti means created things, for example table, chair, idol, etc.

The Yajurveda contains the following prayer:
"Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wander."
[Yajurveda 40:16]8


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5[Yajurveda by Devi Chand M.A. page 377]

6[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

7[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Giffith page 538]

8[Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T. H. Griffith page 541]



Atharvaveda
The Atharvaveda praises God in Book 20, hymn 58 and verse 3:

"Dev maha osi"
"God is verily great"
[Atharvaveda 20:58:3]9


Rigveda

The oldest of all the vedas is Rigveda. It is also the one considered most sacred by the Hindus. The Rigveda states in Book 1, hymn 164 and verse 46:
"Sages (learned Priests) call one God by many names."
[Rigveda 1:164:46]

The Rigveda gives several different attributes to Almighty God. Many of these are mentioned in Rigveda Book 2 hymn 1.

Among the various attributes of God, one of the beautiful attributes mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3, is Brahma. Brahma means ‘The Creator’. Translated into Arabic it means Khaaliq. Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Khaaliq or ‘Creator’ or Brahma. However if it is said that Brahma is Almighty God who has four heads with each head having a crown, Muslims take strong exception to it.

Describing Almighty God in anthropomorphic terms also goes against the following verse of Yajurveda:

"Na tasya Pratima asti"
"There is no image of Him."
[Yajurveda 32:3]

Another beautiful attribute of God mentioned in the Rigveda Book II hymn 1 verse 3 is Vishnu. Vishnu means ‘The Sustainer’. Translated into Arabic it means Rabb. Again, Muslims can have no objection if Almighty God is referred to as Rabb or 'Sustainer' or Vishnu. But the popular image of


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

9[Atharveda Samhita vol 2 William Dwight Whitney page 910]

Vishnu among Hindus, is that of a God who has four arms, with one of the right arms holding the Chakra, i.e. a discus and one of the left arms holding a ‘conch shell’, or riding a bird or reclining on a snake couch. Muslims can never accept any image of God. As mentioned earlier this also goes against Svetasvatara Upanishad Chapter 4 verse 19.

"Na tasya pratima asti"
"There is no likeness of Him"

The following verse from the Rigveda Book 8, hymn 1, verse 1 refer to the Unity and Glory of the Supreme Being:

"Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata"
"O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One. Praise Him alone."
[Rigveda 8:1:1]10

"Devasya samituk parishtutih"
"Verily, great is the glory of the Divine Creator."
[Rigveda 5:1:81]11


Brahma Sutra of Hinduism:

The Brahma Sutra of Hinduism is:

"Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste neh na naste kinchan"

"There is only one God, not the second; not at all, not at all, not in the least bit."

Thus only a dispassionate study of the Hindu scriptures can help one understand the concept of God in Hinduism.


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[Mayavi Morpheus]

Yes, i am not gonna drag this on

I apologize if you found any part of my post offensive, it was not my intent. Let me reiterate one more time, the only reason I mentioned the debate (and islam) was to drive home the point that questioning is important. This was in response to samai's post. The key words in that post are 'religion', 'debate' and 'questioning' and not 'pakistan', 'Islam, and 'Hinduism'. So I should say that your approach to the whole arguement is based on wrong perceptions.



I did not quite write down everything I wanted to say in my previous post as I didnt want to take this thread off-track and that is the only reason I requested you to start a seperate thread. Do that and you will get a proper response.



ps: even jquader's post is way off-topic.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Thanks lonewolf. I was off by 1000 years as I thought it was done in Kerala somewhere during 800 AD. Atleast that's what they showed on History channel.



Jquader:

First of all, thanks for your reply.

BHAGAVAD GITA

The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagavad Gita.

Consider the following verse from the Gita:

"Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures."
[Bhagavad Gita 7:20]

The Gita states that people who are materialistic worship demigods i.e. ‘gods’ besides the True God.

I will respond to your post in detail later, but for the moment I will reply to the above by quoting Baghavad Gita verse 20, chapter 7.

Whichever demigod a particular devotee desires with faith to worship, I surely sustain that faith firmly in him

[jquader]

but the line that i've quoted from bhagwat gita clearly condems the worshipping of the demi-god ...



well, most of the hindus say that they acctually believe in one god but with different avatars... fine i agree with this but coming to the actual point of this post, whats acctually with the worshipping of animals, like humans even animals are created by the only god so why worship them? infact we humans are creatures who are the best among the creation of our only god then whats the point in worshipping those creatures who are overall inferior to the humans? I've found no where in the Hindu scriptures that I've come across to worship the animals or a person whoz believed to have a few good qualities.... I believe the purity of all the religions is being polluted by the different believes of common people who find it convinient for their sake and their satisfaction and hence manipulate the religion...

it is not very difficult for me to open a thread on Islam and be equally critical of your practices and in equally unflattering terms

I agree with this and infact this should be done(if not u then whnever i'll get time i'll try to work with this) because like i mentioned earlier many of the practices of ppl belonging to all the religion and their incomplete knowledge regarding their religion is adultrating the religion

[Thread Saviour HP]

The thread has not gone astray at all. All we need to do is ignore nuisances like parinda however hard we might have an itch to spank the $h|t out of him.



In my last post, I'd mentioned about the reasons why so many dieties exist in the hindu culture. I'd touched upon the existence of an organisational structure in place. I'd mentioned the top management (the triumvirate of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva) and the middle level management (dieties). In my next post, I'll touch upon the two vital cogs in the structure I didn't mention the last time around. The entry level workforce (Humans) and the CEO (God). Before that, today, I'd like to address the Demi-god question riased by jquader.

but the line that i've quoted from bhagwat gita clearly condems the worshipping of the demi-god ...

well, most of the hindus say that they acctually believe in one god but with different avatars... fine i agree with this but coming to the actual point of this post, whats acctually with the worshipping of animals, like humans even animals are created by the only god so why worship them? infact we humans are creatures who are the best among the creation of our only god then whats the point in worshipping those creatures who are overall inferior to the humans? I've found no where in the Hindu scriptures that I've come across to worship the animals or a person whoz believed to have a few good qualities.... I believe the purity of all the religions is being polluted by the different believes of common people who find it convinient for their sake and their satisfaction and hence manipulate the religion...

First of all, the writings in the Gita and the Vedas are very symbolic in nature as is the case with other spiritual texts. Hence, one should never take the literal meaning as the essence of life can never be bound by words. It can just be experienced through symbolism and analogies, and that's what the Gita tries to do.



Now, let me address your last statement first - the one marked in bold by me while quoting you. Sanatana Dharma, or hinduism as we all know it (henceforth, I'll refer to it as hinduism for the sake of clarity) gives its followers a huge freedom. The freedom to decide between what's good and what's bad, between right and wrong. And this freedom is justified scientifically too. Human beings are different from other life forms due to this very reason. Humans have the power to discern, which other life forms don't. Ticklish though I may find it, I just can't resist quoting Spidey here. With great power comes a greater responsibility. And so is the case with the power to choose what to do. It comes along with the responsibility of listening only to your own inner voice. And human nature being fickle the way it is, we regale in our power while forgetting the responsibility that comes along with it. Almost everyone today has rented out his conscience to various demi-gods. Starting from the deities, , the list of these demi-gods swallows a lot of names like the Modis and Togodias, your family and community elders, the "society", your neighbourhood and office gossip machine, your boss, your friends and in some sorry cases, even your dhobi and naee. Now, we should listen to everyone cuz. we can learn from everyone, but put everything you listen through the guillotine of your conscience and never hesitate to kill anything that it deems wrong. Unfortunately, most humans tend to take the easy way out by letting others' voices do the job intended for their own conscience. These are the people symbolically referred to as demi-gods in the shloka you quoted. MM quoted a corollary to that and its as simple as it sounds. If a man chooses to repose his faith on a particular demi-god, God will sustain that faith in him. So, the onus of finding the right path is on the man and God is not a guide.



Coming to idol worship, that's part of the spiritual evolution of the soul and I don't see anything wrong in it. It doesn't harm anyone if it stays in one's personal confines. What say?

[jquader]

a man chooses to repose his faith on a particular demi-god, God will sustain that faith in him.

I've already quoted the hindu scriptures and according to that its clear that nothing else should be associated with the only god, what you write is simply your belief but its been written no-where in any of your holy books (if it is then i would want you to mention it)... If you go thru those few lines that I've mention in one of my earlier posts there are a few verses from upanashids where it is understandable that "he is the only one without a second, there is no likeness of him n his form is not to be seen n no one sees with the eye" .... all the scriptures of hinduism that i've come across simply mention that the Almighty god has no image and nothing can be associated with him and indeed its also been stated in the yajurveda 40:9 that those who worship the natural elements take thmselves towards the darkness so one what basis the people of hinduism pioneer the worshipping of demi-god....

Coming to idol worship, that's part of the spiritual evolution of the soul and I don't see anything wrong in it. It doesn't harm anyone if it stays in one's personal confines. What say?

It seems you dint entirely go thru my first post on this topic spply thru the lines from the hindu scriptures... Yajurveda 40:9 disapprove idol worship

They enter darkness, those who worship the natural elements" (Air, Water, Fire, etc.). "They sink deeper in darkness, those who worship sambhuti."

where sambhuti means non-living things like tables, chairs, idols etc....





You know that air exists n for that you dont keep a huge box in your house labelled "AIR" on it and go breath from there everyday or carry a similar box along with u always...so like you believe that air does exist if you have faith in the only god then you simply have to understand the existance of the almighty but not make him into diff forms n pray.... what say??

[labelle]

i agree with you jquader. i believe in god but i do not go to a temple. i believe that god lies within you. the power that governs us when we stop ourselevs from commiting a crime that is what god is. do good to others and you will feel the presence of god. i am not saying this reading it from a book but putting this into practice. u need not do a food for all(annadanam) all u need to do is do little things that help others. things that make u feel happy things that you do selflessly. afterall god is the faith, faith that we have in something or someone that we take would show us the right path.in other terms lead us from darkness to light(tamso maa jyotirgamaya). beliveing in people who say are powered by god is absolute $hit. i believe in the theory of karma do good and you will be benefitted by it. i am not talking about the materialistic things but the inner peace and happiness that you derive once you do good.

[DQ]

Gullittone of your consiencse!!!



In other words giving freedom to decipher whatever he speaks.



Demi God Togodia. If the gullitone gets stuck at some emotional level then you can justify despicable acts wether they be boycotting some one from drinking from your well, to mass rape and murder.



Where the mind is without fear, no boundaries. All I do is evolution and all what you beleive is crap. Hmm Intresting keep them comming

[Mayavi Morpheus]

hmmm.... this thread has turned into a debate on Hindu practices. I will change my role from asking questions to answering them the way I understand religion.

but the line that i've quoted from bhagwat gita clearly condems the worshipping of the demi-god ...

Small correction, the verse I quoted is actually 7.21 and it follows the one you quoted.

well, most of the hindus say that they acctually believe in one god but with different avatars... fine i agree with this

In Bagavad Gita itself, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna that he will manifest himself as a human (avatar) but to the true believer there wont be any illusion and they will recognize him. In Mahabharata itself many people recognize Krishna as an avatar of vishnu while Kauravas rubbish it saying Krishna is a magician.
So yes, it is just one god in many avatars. Here again many consider Vishnu as that supreme god but I *think* it is 'Shakti', which means power that is the supreme being.

but coming to the actual point of this post, whats acctually with the worshipping of animals, like humans even animals are created by the only god so why worship them?

Mahavishnu is the protector of the whole world and of his dasa-avatars (10 avatars) he assumed animal form atleast five times. He who can create and also be a part of the creation. So if God can create man and animal, he can also be born as a man or an animal. This is a theological answer to your question.
In the Hindu mythology, God is served by both humans and animals. Mahavishnu sleeps on a snake, and garuda is his vehicle so on and so forth. These animals are revered because of their usefulness to both humans and gods alike. Cow for example is revered as Kamadhenu. This animal is capable of granting your wishes.

infact we humans are creatures who are the best among the creation of our only god then whats the point in worshipping those creatures who are overall inferior to the humans?

I have to disagree with you here. If we are all god's creation, then one is not inferior to the other. We are all the same. Revering other magnificient creations of god should not be wrong. Worshipping? I do not know, may be revereing something for 5000 years becomes worship. Islam is not there yet, so it is difficult to understand this at this point in history.

I've found no where in the Hindu scriptures that I've come across to worship the animals or a person whoz believed to have a few good qualities....

I do not know how many scriptues you have read (I read none) but if you read Baktha Prahlada you will have an idea. Two things would be apparent: one that god is everywhere, two that god can take anyform. I will summarize it for you: Hiranyakashyapa is the evil king of ??? empire, who hates MahaVishnu. Prahlada, his 10 yr old son, is a great devotee of Vishnu. This angers Hiranyakashyapa and one day he asks his son if god is so great, why is he not visible, to which prahlada replies, god is everywhere, you just have to look. So Hiranyakashyapa points to a pillar and asks if god is there and breaks the pillar and behold, God emerges from the pillar in a weird half human half animal form. The reason behind strange appearance is that Hiranyakashyapa gets a promise from Lord Vishnu himself that he will not be killed by god, human or an animal! So he has to be killed by a mix of all three.

I believe the purity of all the religions is being polluted by the different believes of common people who find it convinient for their sake and their satisfaction and hence manipulate the religion...

.... their incomplete knowledge regarding their religion is adultrating the religion

This brings our the athiest in me. How can anything be adulterated when it is not pure in the first place? That there exists more than one path to god leads us to many questions. Which is the correct path? Is there only one path and the remaining all lead to a dead end? If so, which of these paths is the correct path? Am I on the correct path? How will you or I know, when all we got is another man's word for it and nothing more!