EVE TEASING

[akhilis2cool]

U seem to have done a lot of studying madam. good work.

[CtrlAltDel]

ask a Delhi girl abt eve-teasing and she'll have horror stories to tell u. i've seen it happen brazenly (usually by Punjus n Biharis) in Delhi and believe me its worse than in Hyderabad.

Conservative society ke waah se hi women in India are respected so much

Conservatism is a double edged sword Sharjeel...it makes men respect women provided the ladies stick to doing what they are "suppossed" to do as per tradition. Let the women show a sign of independence (in behaviour, clothes etc) and they r harrassed mercilessly.

Most of the culprits cannot accept the fact that most women out there are independent and seek to prove who is boss thru harrassment. thats why many male who drive (cars or autorickshaws) dont like it if a lady-driven vehicle over takes them. they have to overtake her again, making some nasty comment or giving a dirty look. this is just one small instance.

secondly, many men who harrass ladies on roads do so coz they feel its the best way to gain the ladies' admiration and attention. this idea has been fed by unending movies where the heroine falls for the hero who does nothing but harrass her.

finally there are a few who harrass just coz they get a kick out of it...the 'touching/brushing' kind. they usually are frustrated youth who have no guts to approach or talk to a girl and usually move about in groups of like minded guys. if alone, they might not have the guts to do anything.

[akhilis2cool]

I have had several races with ladies on roads......but have also allowed a lot of them to overtake me on there pesky scootees.



but i havent seen many incidents of women on scooters getting teased.

[Sharjeel]

1. North main zyaada eve-teasing isiliye hai, because there girls go out a lot, as compared to Hyd.



2. Hyd has more eve-teasing bcuz here there are a lot of malls, and parks, etc.



3. If Hyd is more Heterogenous, then eve-teasing should have been lesser, not more.



4. Muslim boys in Hyd have been brought up in very very strict environment, so they are more inclined to be chhupa-rustams than people like (say) punjus who are given a lot of slack while growing up.



If you show a scantily dressed girlie to a punju or a mumbaikar (or anyone) who sees those types a lot of times, he won't be soooo inclined to tease her. But show the same girlie to a Hyd (or anyone who isnt used to them), he will go craazy.



5. Hydes do have a lot in common with Delhi-ites and Kashmiris (the use of Urdu, and general behaviour). But eve-teasing is a different matter and needs much more analysis.

[Der Schakal]

thats why many male who drive (cars or autorickshaws) dont like it if a lady-driven vehicle over takes them. they have to overtake her again, making some nasty comment or giving a dirty look. this is just one small instance.

Oh yeah this I have seen at many places.I had this driver who used to do this,I had to give him a nice lesson 1 day because he was telling my brothers friends that whats he doing was right. I got him fired the next week.

[akhilis2cool]

thats why many male who drive (cars or autorickshaws) dont like it if a lady-driven vehicle over takes them. they have to overtake her again, making some nasty comment or giving a dirty look. this is just one small instance.

Oh yeah this I have seen at many places.I had this driver who used to do this,I had to give him a nice lesson 1 day because he was telling my brothers friends that whats he doing was right. I got him fired the next week.

weldun

[s]

Sharjeel, I dont mean to put you down, but your answers do not in any way rebutt my argument and I'm sure other people will agree. Can I please have an intellignet response to this? Dont mean to be such an intellectual snob but this is bugging me. If you want to disagree with me, that's fine, but do so in a coherent manner please.

[Sharjeel]

thats why many male who drive (cars or autorickshaws) dont like it if a lady-driven vehicle over takes them. they have to overtake her again, making some nasty comment or giving a dirty look. this is just one small instance.

Oh yeah this I have seen at many places.I had this driver who used to do this,I had to give him a nice lesson 1 day because he was telling my brothers friends that whats he doing was right. I got him fired the next week.

Good going!

[Der Schakal]

thats why many male who drive (cars or autorickshaws) dont like it if a lady-driven vehicle over takes them. they have to overtake her again, making some nasty comment or giving a dirty look. this is just one small instance.

Oh yeah this I have seen at many places.I had this driver who used to do this,I had to give him a nice lesson 1 day because he was telling my brothers friends that whats he doing was right. I got him fired the next week.

Good going!

Thanks.Now we have a darr p*** driver.He doesnt cross 60.

[Sharjeel]

Oh well, you cant have it all...



Dear S, I dunno what you are expecting. If you state proven facts, and ask anyone to disprove them, then it is not possible.

[s]

Dear Sharjeel,



So you're agreeing with me then, and you're also saying that Muslim guys in Hyd do indeed tease girls more than non-muslim guys. Because you're saying that I'm stating proven facts, my statement above is a fact (?)

[Sharjeel]

Right.



But It does not make Hyd worse than any other city. 19-20 ka fark hai. Only discernable to those who have lived for a while in different cities.

[s]

Ok Sharjeel! I'm glad we agree.



I'd also like to point out others that Muslims make up less than 40 % of Hyd's population, so to say that you get teased by Muslims more because they're more of them is simply untrue. They form a smaller proportion of the population but are overrepresented in the eve-teaser category is what I'm saying.

[Der Schakal]

Arnt muslims more than 50% in hyd?

[s]

Muslims constitute 40% of the four million people in Hyd according to the 1991 census.

[Der Schakal]

Muslims constitute 40% of the four million people in Hyd according to the 1991 census.

Well the 91 census in really really old.I suggest you to use the 2001 one.

[s]

Figures for Hyderabad's population by religious composition are not available online anywhere for the 2001 census, or I would most certainly have used those.

[CtrlAltDel]

as per figures i read somewhere recently, muslims are less than 50% of hyderabad's population...abt 40-45% i think.

they are in the majority only in some areas of the Old City.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

{ Please do not pick on my grammer because I am no master there. I am saying this bcoz someone did that here once b4.}

I do not think anyone has been able to poke a decent hole in my theory yet. (Please refer to some longer earlier posts by me). All people are saying is that "No, its not based on religion" or "Let's think of a solution instead" . I'm all for a solution but my original interest was in whtehr it si linked to religion. So I'm still sticking by that.

well let me start with stating my opinion that , its difficult to catogorically say yes or no to your statement becoz it involves too many factors attached to behavioural patterns of peole. I think i will deal with the individual points you make on one to one basis.

So this is my thought process:
1. The north in general has more eveteasing than the south (this is statistically true by police records although a lot of this goes unreported).

The reason north has more crimes againest women (eve-teasing included) is that the socio-economic indices of most north states are less than the southren states.
The BIMARU states are all situtaed in the north,( Bihar,Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and Uttar pradesh). These are the states that have a very skewered male to female ratio, high female infanticide, low female literacy rates and many more indices. So I think all these factors have to be taken into consideration when we dicuss the topic of eveteaseing because it is just the reflection of the underlying social structure of the society.
One example to support my train of thought is to look at the rates of crime againest women in Kerala, which has a substantial muslim population. I dont know for sure but i guess they are lesser than the north states like Rajasthan which have a predominantly hindu population.

2. In the south, Hyderabad has more eveteasing than other cities (my and my friends' anecdotal evidence)

I too think Hyderabad has more eve-teasing than other cities in the south but I have no basis for this feeling..coz i never noticed anything very endemic here.( maybe i should go out more:))
Coming to your point that Hyderabad has more eve-teasing than other cities,, i dont know if we can consider anecdotal evidence coz those might be just incidences of being at the wrong place wrong time, or not having lived long enough in the other cities to be able to compare.
But the earlier explaination holds true in the context of Hyderabad too because I remember reading that Andhra Pradesh did not score too well on those indices either compared to the other south states.( however much we love our state there are some facts we cant run from.)

3. I think eveteasing is more in Hyd because Hyd is more like the north than other southern cities. It has a more hetereogeneous population. The Mughal invasion was from the North as we all know, so cultural attributes between the North and Hyd are similar in many ways.

Like I already said Hyderabad maybe like the North but not in cultural similarities but similarities in socio-economic indices. And I do not think that moghal invasion had anything to do with the present state of affairs we have in regards to eveteasing. ( and if you were saying that the moghal invasion led to conversions to islam and therefore cultural similarities,, I think the hyderabadi culture is a lot different from the north.)

4. Given that is true, most eveteasers up north may well be Hindu. But in Hyderabad, it is the Muslims who evetease more, because culturally Hyderabadi Muslims share more attributes with Northerners(both Hindu and Muslim northerners) than non-muslims in Hyd share with Northerners i.e. attributes like highly patriarchal families, lesser education on average for women, lower female labor force participation on average
5. In summary, I'm saying that Muslims in Hyd share a lot of cultural and socio-economic attributes with people of any religion in the North. So if you have a lot of eveteasing up North, and if you have similar people in Hyd, they you will have a lot of eveteasing in Hyd.

I'm still waiting for an intelligent rebuttal which bears in mind these 5 points instead of blatantly claiming that my words are not true, or just telling me lets focus on a solution. I'm interested in the problem for now, not the solution ,altough I believe solution is very needed.

After reading these last 2 points you made and the conclusion you arrived at , I feel that i wasted time thinking I was answering your questions where as I realised that you have answered them by yourself right here.
When you state that Hyd has more eveteasing because it is similar to the North in cultural and socio-economic attributes you are in fact answering your question by saying that it is these factors and not religion which brings in the similarities. And if what you are looking for concurrence with your view that muslim men tease more in Hyd than hindus, maybe you have a point there coz most muslim men who tease are from a lesser social strata than hindus.
So there you have all the answers right there.. Answered by our own reasoning. Do we still have a question left.???

[s]

Dear Reality!



Thank you for your excellent breakdown. I agree that I myself answered the question, and so it turns out socio-economic factors are more responsible than anything else, but I guess I was trying to establish the idea that these socio-economics factors do indeed have correlations with religion. At the cost of being repetitive, in an earlier post I said to note my words: I said "correlation with" and "causation by" . And that idea is actually a fact, so it wasnt really a debate or anything. Well anyway, thanks for a thoughtful repsonse. Glad to see my train of thought is seconded by others.

[s]

Oops oops oops. Please read it as "not causations by" instead of "causations by"

[WHAT?]

Why don't we also link religion and global warming? It's because of lighting of candles and the arthis that global temperature has risen. So mostly Christians and Hindus are responsible for global warming.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

I was trying to establish the idea that these socio-economics factors do indeed have correlations with religion. At the cost of being repetitive, in an earlier post I said to note my words: I said "correlation with" and "not causation by" . And that idea is actually a fact, so it wasnt really a debate or anything. Well anyway, thanks for a thoughtful repsonse. Glad to see my train of thought is seconded by others.

[b] Well there is only one slight variation that being,

Most muslims in India belong to the low socio-economic, not vice versa which turns out as most low socio-economic people are muslims.

so i guess you have situation where muslims might not be the majority of

people who evetease except in some pockets of some cities. It is a simple observation that people do not indulge in these activities in places where they are the minority. so u will find muslims teaseing more in muslim dominated areas..of which Hyd has many.

[Reality,,its here.Accept it.]

Why don't we also link religion and global warming? It's because of lighting of candles and the arthis that global temperature has risen. So mostly Christians and Hindus are responsible for global warming.

Thats the extreme kind of logic people use in defense thats causing more problems to muslims. Comon you can come up with a better response than that.

By the way , that was one of the most funniest things i heard in a religion based topic. ( by the way dont muslim light incensse too?? i got fogged by a lot of muslim fakirs carrying those smoke bellowing incense bowls.)

[WHAT?]

I was caught up between deciding if this topic was provoking or thought-provoking - so the extreme logic.