Do we really want to be engineers?

[Sharjeel]

Sorry for the late reply. Had to go fer Namaaz.

yeah think abt takin out a pillar from a structure and still maintaining the sturcture to creat some more space and remove an ugly obstruction.

Already been done.

as for coding without the keyboard is another good idea for an engineer. maybe u could come up with a drag and drop approach to coding where all u have to do is drag and drop the logic. as cad put it its about thinking out of the box.

Ditto.

what we learn at college is nothing compared to what exists in the real world and this is so coz the lecturers don know shit about the industry. its sad that they give notes to engg students. i have heard that in some education systems u have open book exams where u r given the text book. u have to answer the paper applying the info that u have in the text book.

Well, the short answer is that your college must be really full of stupid people. We never had any problem with anybody stifling my creativity, what with discussions, projects, syllabus that changed every term (which is a really big headache), etc.

Engineers are supposed to apply their minds, so they logically are more into the theoritical side of things. As far as mugging up textbooks is concerned, then yes, everyone has to do that. If Doctors didnt mug up the names of medicines, they wouldnt be able to treat patients.



As far as saying Engineering is bad, then so is studying. Maybe we should give up studying and all start 'learnng'. But please dont single out Eng and say that it is bad.

[solosynergy]

Sorry for the late reply. Had to go fer Namaaz.

yeah think abt takin out a pillar from a structure and still maintaining the sturcture to creat some more space and remove an ugly obstruction.

Already been done.

as for coding without the keyboard is another good idea for an engineer. maybe u could come up with a drag and drop approach to coding where all u have to do is drag and drop the logic. as cad put it its about thinking out of the box.

Ditto.

what we learn at college is nothing compared to what exists in the real world and this is so coz the lecturers don know shit about the industry. its sad that they give notes to engg students. i have heard that in some education systems u have open book exams where u r given the text book. u have to answer the paper applying the info that u have in the text book.

Well, the short answer is that your college must be really full of stupid people. We never had any problem with anybody stifling my creativity, what with discussions, projects, syllabus that changed every term (which is a really big headache), etc.
Engineers are supposed to apply their minds, so they logically are more into the theoritical side of things. As far as mugging up textbooks is concerned, then yes, everyone has to do that. If Doctors didnt mug up the names of medicines, they wouldnt be able to treat patients.

As far as saying Engineering is bad, then so is studying. Maybe we should give up studying and all start 'learnng'. But please dont single out Eng and say that it is bad.

i am not saying engg is bad.its an excellent thing. but the apporach to it that that students have these days is really bad. and the students are not to blame. how many of them really join knowing what they are in for. even after they finish four years of engg they really don know what they wanna do. the other day i asked this comp sci graduate what he wanted to do after engg he said he wanted to do his masters.i aksed him in what he wanted to his PG in. he said he din wanna do his PG but his masters. and he wasnt even clear about what a masters degree was all about. this is how sad engg is in this country. its not about theory that i am emphasising on. engg is a lotta theory yes. but then its about using this theory in the real world. its a lot about the approach to a problem that engineering is all about. and the unfortunate part is the systems that we are in we are not taught this.

[solosynergy]

Sorry for the late reply. Had to go fer Namaaz.

yeah think abt takin out a pillar from a structure and still maintaining the sturcture to creat some more space and remove an ugly obstruction.

Already been done.

as for coding without the keyboard is another good idea for an engineer. maybe u could come up with a drag and drop approach to coding where all u have to do is drag and drop the logic. as cad put it its about thinking out of the box.

Ditto.

what we learn at college is nothing compared to what exists in the real world and this is so coz the lecturers don know shit about the industry. its sad that they give notes to engg students. i have heard that in some education systems u have open book exams where u r given the text book. u have to answer the paper applying the info that u have in the text book.

Well, the short answer is that your college must be really full of stupid people. We never had any problem with anybody stifling my creativity, what with discussions, projects, syllabus that changed every term (which is a really big headache), etc.
Engineers are supposed to apply their minds, so they logically are more into the theoritical side of things. As far as mugging up textbooks is concerned, then yes, everyone has to do that. If Doctors didnt mug up the names of medicines, they wouldnt be able to treat patients.

As far as saying Engineering is bad, then so is studying. Maybe we should give up studying and all start 'learnng'. But please dont single out Eng and say that it is bad.

i am not saying engg is bad.its an excellent thing. but the apporach to it that that students have these days is really bad. and the students are not to blame. how many of them really join knowing what they are in for. even after they finish four years of engg they really don know what they wanna do. the other day i asked this comp sci graduate what he wanted to do after engg he said he wanted to do his masters.i aksed him in what he wanted to his PG in. he said he din wanna do his PG but his masters. and he wasnt even clear about what a masters degree was all about. this is how sad engg is in this country. its not about theory that i am emphasising on. engg is a lotta theory yes. but then its about using this theory in the real world. its a lot about the approach to a problem that engineering is all about. and the unfortunate part is the systems that we are in we are not taught this. we r not taught how to think out of the box and most of us dont know we r in the box.

[Sharjeel]

i am not saying engg is bad.its an excellent thing. but the apporach to it that that students have these days is really bad. and the students are not to blame.

I have analysed people from different streams. You can safely asume that an Enginer would be the best bet wherever creativity, quick thinking, adabtibility, and realted qualities are required.



You know why Engineers have fallen from grace? Here are the reasons:



1. As you say, commercialisation of the whole Engineering course.



2. Non-Engineers (B. Com, B.A) do not have any big load of studies, so they are very enthu and fresh. They take the fast path to Graduation, while Engineers are stuck in their studies (flunking and stumbling).



3. The reason why people say that non-Engineers are better is that they only look at programming and pass their judgement. Will you let a B.A Grad design a bridge?



There are exception to the rule, but this is the general idea.

[CtrlAltDel]

as far as my arguement goes, i never said engineers are bad. if u read all my prev posts u will see that i had commented on engineers wasting their careers by not applying their talents in what they are trained. for example a mech. engineer with good academic record is busy writing a program for a payroll or inventory software application. does this make sense?



engineers are meant to build bridges, planes, factories, missiles, scientific software apps, design a chip, play with semi conductors. if they succeded in getting the degree, they shud have the aptitude to work in their field.



i am talking more abt s/w coz thats my field and i work with many engineers. i dont see their work superior to mine in anyway. anyone with some logical skills can be a good IT professional and logic is not restricted to engineers. that has been my point.



i pointed out many instances where i have encountered below par engineers. that was not meant to say engineers are dumb. it was only to counter the arguement that engineers have built in creativity or logical thinking.

[Sharjeel]

as far as my arguement goes, i never said engineers are bad. if u read all my prev posts u will see that i had commented on engineers wasting their careers by not applying their talents in what they are trained. for example a mech. engineer with good academic record is busy writing a program for a payroll or inventory software application. does this make sense?

engineers are meant to build bridges, planes, factories, missiles, scientific software apps, design a chip, play with semi conductors. if they succeded in getting the degree, they shud have the aptitude to work in their field.

i am talking more abt s/w coz thats my field and i work with many engineers. i dont see their work superior to mine in anyway. anyone with some logical skills can be a good IT professional and logic is not restricted to engineers. that has been my point.

i pointed out many instances where i have encountered below par engineers. that was not meant to say engineers are dumb. it was only to counter the arguement that engineers have built in creativity or logical thinking.

I Know. I was not referring to your post.



It is infuriating that everyone nowadays think that Engineers are those people who sit in a cubicle and make "Hello World!" programs. Engineers are not supposed to do that. Like you say, Engineers should be building bridges, playing with SCs and such. Why does it not happen? Because of this:



1. Too many Engineers



2. People who have NIL, ZILCH, ZERO working knowledge ('Knowing' is not knowledge, pls mind.) of Physics and Maths hop into an Eng college and out with a degree (just because they are good at studies). Maths and Physics, Mechanics, and other Engineering subjects are NOT theory subjects .



You make some very very very very good points. But they are general points, and should not be directed at only Engineers. The people you call sub-standard engineers are just that. There is rubbish everywhere, you can blame India's population for that.



Meawhile, the B. Com/CA boom has begun, and in a few years, tumko paili ka pachaas B. Com/CA milenge, to iska matlab ye to nahi ke sare B. Com/CA bekaar hai, no?

[solosynergy]

as far as my arguement goes, i never said engineers are bad. if u read all my prev posts u will see that i had commented on engineers wasting their careers by not applying their talents in what they are trained. for example a mech. engineer with good academic record is busy writing a program for a payroll or inventory software application. does this make sense?

engineers are meant to build bridges, planes, factories, missiles, scientific software apps, design a chip, play with semi conductors. if they succeded in getting the degree, they shud have the aptitude to work in their field.

i am talking more abt s/w coz thats my field and i work with many engineers. i dont see their work superior to mine in anyway. anyone with some logical skills can be a good IT professional and logic is not restricted to engineers. that has been my point.

i pointed out many instances where i have encountered below par engineers. that was not meant to say engineers are dumb. it was only to counter the arguement that engineers have built in creativity or logical thinking.

I Know. I was not referring to your post.

It is infuriating that everyone nowadays think that Engineers are those people who sit in a cubicle and make "Hello World!" programs. Engineers are not supposed to do that. Like you say, Engineers should be building bridges, playing with SCs and such. Why does it not happen? Because of this:

1. Too many Engineers

2. People who have NIL, ZILCH, ZERO working knowledge ('Knowing' is not knowledge, pls mind.) of Physics and Maths hop into an Eng college and out with a degree (just because they are good at studies). Maths and Physics, Mechanics, and other Engineering subjects are NOT theory subjects .
You make some very very very very good points. But they are general points, and should not be directed at only Engineers. The people you call sub-standard engineers are just that. There is rubbish everywhere, you can blame India's population for that.

Meawhile, the B. Com/CA boom has begun, and in a few years, tumko paili ka pachaas B. Com/CA milenge, to iska matlab ye to nahi ke sare B. Com/CA bekaar hai, no?

i totally agree with the part that i have made bold. thats what i mean by experimneting anf having a good time. a fren o mine told me that an undergrad project was to make an MP3 player. how many of us here in india could even think about how to go about making it. forget about making it.commercialistation of engg has ruined the quality of engineers. and the sad part is the number of colleges just keep on increasing.and in AP engg is the most commercialised of all the states. the kids here dont know any other proffession other than engg or medicine.

[Kavita]

as far as my arguement goes, i never said engineers are bad. if u read all my prev posts u will see that i had commented on engineers wasting their careers by not applying their talents in what they are trained. for example a mech. engineer with good academic record is busy writing a program for a payroll or inventory software application. does this make sense?

Does it make sense if the same thing is done by a B.A or a B.Com/Engg guy writing a programe for hospital workflow? Engineers are preferred because logical thinking is part of their educations and chances of a non-engineering graduate having the logical thinking is lesser.

engineers are meant to build bridges, planes, factories, missiles, scientific software apps, design a chip, play with semi conductors. if they succeded in getting the degree, they shud have the aptitude to work in their field.

Are there enough jobs in the above fields? And non-engineering graduates too have thier respective fileds. I would say writing an software application is programatic way of 'engineering a system'. And any one can do it, provided he uses his intellect. While an engineer is taught, in his acedamics to engineer systems non-programmatic way. Any developer/programmer who can develop a system is basically engineering it. The thinking involved, design etc are part of engineering.
An engineer is a person who designs and plans, not just the one who studied engineering.

i am talking more abt s/w coz thats my field and i work with many engineers. i dont see their work superior to mine in anyway. anyone with some logical skills can be a good IT professional and logic is not restricted to engineers. that has been my point.

Thats with every profession, not just sofware. My uncle is an engineer, but he is interested in painting/art as well and can paint much better than other professionals. Firms show inclination towards engineers for the above talked reasons.

[solosynergy]

as far as my arguement goes, i never said engineers are bad. if u read all my prev posts u will see that i had commented on engineers wasting their careers by not applying their talents in what they are trained. for example a mech. engineer with good academic record is busy writing a program for a payroll or inventory software application. does this make sense?

Does it make sense if the same thing is done by a B.A or a B.Com/Engg guy writing a programe for hospital workflow? Engineers are preferred because logical thinking is part of their educations and chances of a non-engineering graduate having the logical thinking is lesser.

engineers are meant to build bridges, planes, factories, missiles, scientific software apps, design a chip, play with semi conductors. if they succeded in getting the degree, they shud have the aptitude to work in their field.

Are there enough jobs in the above fields? And non-engineering graduates too have thier respective fileds. I would say writing an software application is programatic way of 'engineering a system'. And any one can do it, provided he uses his intellect. While an engineer is taught, in his acedamics to engineer systems non-programmatic way. Any developer/programmer who can develop a system is basically engineering it. The thinking involved, design etc are part of engineering.
An engineer is a person who designs and plans, not just the one who studied engineering.

i am talking more abt s/w coz thats my field and i work with many engineers. i dont see their work superior to mine in anyway. anyone with some logical skills can be a good IT professional and logic is not restricted to engineers. that has been my point.

Thats with every profession, not just sofware. My uncle is an engineer, but he is interested in painting/art as well and can paint much better than other professionals. Firms show inclination towards engineers for the above talked reasons.

talkin about jobs in fields other than software there are quite a few. but the sad part is gettin into the other fields is a lot more tougher than software for a freseher. all these companies expect ppl who r experienced or have a masters degree. and the starting sals are not as high compared to the s/w jobs.

[Sharjeel]

Well said Kavita! Couldnt have dreamt of being so concise myself .

a fren o mine told me that an undergrad project was to make an MP3 player. how many of us here in india could even think about how to go about making it. forget about making it.commercialistation of engg has ruined the quality of engineers. and the sad part is the number of colleges just keep on increasing.and in AP engg is the most commercialised of all the states. the kids here dont know any other proffession other than engg or medicine.

Totally Agree.



Maybe it is because Engineers and Doctors get an absurd amount of dowry in AP and Bihar. I know this for a fact.

[solosynergy]

Well said Kavita! Couldnt have dreamt of being so concise myself .

a fren o mine told me that an undergrad project was to make an MP3 player. how many of us here in india could even think about how to go about making it. forget about making it.commercialistation of engg has ruined the quality of engineers. and the sad part is the number of colleges just keep on increasing.and in AP engg is the most commercialised of all the states. the kids here dont know any other proffession other than engg or medicine.

Totally Agree.

Maybe it is because Engineers and Doctors get an absurd amount of dowry in AP and Bihar. I know this for a fact.

well talkin about the dowry part its not a mayabe. there was another guy i knew i would rather not call him a fren . he said he would be worth 50 lakhs post his engg. but the poor fellas been there six years already and still has a 2 years to go. maybe he considers himself better qualified to be an 8 year engg and can boast of having a double degree .

[Sharjeel]

Grrr! These people...



I now really wish I had taken up D. Ed.

[SACHIN TENDULKAR GOD OF INDIA]

Hi everyone,

Nice topic up for discussion. I d like to put my two cents in too



I am a B.Tech in CS and I think ppl who do not hav Engg deg in CS cannot make gud software developers. They need someone who always has to guide thm. I can make one on my own right frm the analysis stage to the debugging errors stage..............



There are always some brilliant individuals who can also manage this without an engg degree and becoz IT is the most talked abt prof now many of these brilliant guys are tryin their hand at this so u seee more ppl without a CS degree developing gud software



jus that u met a few ordinary guys wit bachelors in cs doesnt mean all of thm are waste.I bet a decent engineer as always develop better software than his compatriot in BCA,BCOM............

[solosynergy]

Grrr! These people...

I now really wish I had taken up D. Ed.

sometimes i am not very sure if i shud declare the fact that i am an engg to other ppl. its kinda makes me feel shameful

[Kavita]

Well said Kavita! Couldnt have dreamt of being so concise myself .

Thanks Sharjeel.

Maybe it is because Engineers and Doctors get an absurd amount of dowry in AP and Bihar. I know this for a fact.

I heard of some other reason on why AP govt has commercialized its Engineering. Karnataka. Quite a huge amount of revenues used to go to Karnataka, for its engineering and medical colleges there. Almost every parent wants their child to be an engineer/medico. Percentage of AP students in Karnataka is higher than from any other state. I do not know the quality of education in Karnataka though.



AP State govt toyed with the idea to commercialize Medical stream too, but there was lot of opposition in state and the Central govt. too didnt approve the private colleges concept. Think off, if a person becomes a doctor and does apply his intellect in his profession, he will be taking lot of lives. Better let him ruin machines.

[CtrlAltDel]

I would say writing an software application is programatic way of 'engineering a system'. And any one can do it, provided he uses his intellect. While an engineer is taught, in his acedamics to engineer systems non-programmatic way. Any developer/programmer who can develop a system is basically engineering it. The thinking involved, design etc are part of engineering.
An engineer is a person who designs and plans, not just the one who studied engineering.

exactly! so, isnt it unfair to deny chances for non-engineers in s/w. this mainly happens in indian IT companies.

ppl who do not hav Engg deg in CS cannot make gud software developers. They need someone who always has to guide thm. I can make one on my own right frm the analysis stage to the debugging errors stage

thats not true always. u too were trained in the process and any non-engineer can be trained easily in it too. the "process" is no big deal, just big jargons hiding all the amazing simplicity. thats why non-engineers start off with lower pay than engineers (training cost), but if capable they can over take any engineer in the company. text book knowledge will be of no help in real life work environment. its how u adapt yrself.

jus that u met a few ordinary guys wit bachelors in cs doesnt mean all of thm are waste.

no one said that.

I bet a decent engineer as always develop better software than his compatriot in BCA,BCOM...

thats bullshit...it all depends on how the "process" is understood. here i feel the non-engineers deserve credit, coz what u took 4 years to master in college, the non-engineer IT guy, does it in 6-12 months on the job. at the end of the day everybody, engineers or not, write the same code and follow the same process...

[Sharjeel]

exactly! so, isnt it unfair to deny chances for non-engineers in s/w. this mainly happens in indian IT companies.

You are right. Anybody can do anything as long as he has the aptitude/perseverence.

I bet a decent engineer as always develop better software than his compatriot in BCA,BCOM...

thats bullshit...it all depends on how the "process" is understood.

I have to agree with CAD. Making a piece of code or doing anything does not require a degree. It is just that having an Engineering degree qualifies a person for Engineering jobs.

[lonewolf]

I am a B.Tech in CS and I think ppl who do not hav Engg deg in CS cannot make gud software developers. They need someone who always has to guide thm. I can make one on my own right frm the analysis stage to the debugging errors stage..............

Thats bull.. Most of the gulti BE Computer Science guys I've met are such dumbos that I wonder whats with BE anymore. Many of the BE Mechanical Engineering graduates are way better than the BE Computer Science graduates when it comes to software engineering or anything related to software. Most of my BSc and MCA classmates are far brainy and more hardworking than the BE Computer Sc guys who buy their engineering seats.



And yes, the BE Computer Science guys openly flaunt their "worth", the number of crores they'd be getting when they hook a bride from their village.



About time Indians realised that engineering is just one profession.. no need for engineers to be proud and say that theirs is the best - they obviously can't do without people working in other professions...

[lonewolf]

What is the latest position of fresh Engineers now a days?

Rocket, you're doing a good job getting the old posts out of the archival shelf.

[CtrlAltDel]

What is the latest position of fresh Engineers now a days?

well, they are still virgins...no ones marrying them till they get a good job....

[lonewolf]

What is the latest position of fresh Engineers now a days?

well, they are still virgins...no ones marrying them till they get a good job....

Hahaha

[Sharjeel]

well, they are still virgins...no ones marrying them till they get a good job....

:lol: which could take forever, considering the misconceptions which these BE grads have about themselves...

[CtrlAltDel]

well, they are still virgins...no ones marrying them till they get a good job....

:lol: which could take forever, considering the misconceptions which these BE grads have about themselves...

its not just misconception...there are simply too many engineers going around....competition is very heavy and only the top few get a job very fast. the rest have to wait for sometime.

[ycr007]

well, they are still virgins...no ones marrying them till they get a good job....

:lol: which could take forever, considering the misconceptions which these BE grads have about themselves...

Hey,ME a B.Tech and as many as Five gals in our class were married before the Final Exams........



P.S:One even was "in-the-family-way".......or so the other gals said.....

[Sharjeel]

competition is very heavy and only the top few get a job very fast. the rest have to wait for sometime.

But as you say, if you are the best, there are no problems.