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Tips on good writing

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Tips on good writing

by fullhyd.com » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:17 pm

While most posts on these forums are quite thought-provoking and reflective of keen minds, sometimes there are presentation issues. The moderators at fullhyd.com edit some of the more confusing posts for punctuation and grammar in their efforts to keep this an easy experience, but all of us can be good writers if we know a few basic rules. An opinion written well gives the impression to the reader, at a sub-conscious level, that the guy posting it is pretty evolved.

We thought we'll share some of our thoughts on the most common errors made in these forums so that a significant number of errors of language are eliminated. We guarantee that everyone who just follows these religiously will avoid 80% of language errors.

We'll divide this into 2 sections: punctuation and grammar.

PUNCTUATION (in descending order of most frequent errors)

Punctuation is the use of commas, colons, hyphens etc.

[list=1]
  • Always put a space after a full-stop and a comma, without exception. This is the single most common error. In general, you always put a space after every punctuation sign, with three exceptions:

    [list=a]
  • Not after an opening bracket: There is never a space after an opening bracket (like this - no space before the "like").

  • A hyphen: There are spaces either both before a hyphen and after, or neither before a hyphen nor after. Examples of how to decide:
    [list=i]
  • Words like "man-eater", which are single words make of two words juxtaposed, do not have spaces either before or after the hyphen. This is the second case where there is no space after a punctuation mark (the hyphen).

  • But consider this:
    Correct: "I did talk to him - in fact, thrice."
    These are two different parts of a sentence joined by a hyphen. In these cases, there are spaces both before and after the hyphen. You should not write
    Wrong: "I did talk to him-in fact, thrice."
    or
    Wrong: "I did talk to him- in fact, thrice."
    Both are wrong.

  • Look at this sentence:
    Correct: "He looked worried (which worried me too), but seemed in no mood to give up."
    After the closing bracket above, there is no space, which is against the rule that after every punctuation mark there is a space. This is the third case. This is because there is never a space before a comma or full-stop - our next big rule.


  • Never put a space before a comma or a full-stop.

  • Both above rules are valid for the following 3 punctuation symbols, too:

    : (colon)
    ; (semi-colon)
    ! (exclamation)

    That is, no space before, and always a space after.

  • If you are using dots to trail off like this... use exactly 3 dots, and put a space either before or after the 3 dots, depending on whether you are trailing off at the end of one sentence or are starting the beginning of the next abruptly. Also, some people trail off at the end of every sentence… Trailing off mostly means that you are not 100% assertive about what you are saying, or are stating a thought that can be countered… It is not a good idea to trail off too often… A full-stop shows decisiveness, a firm statement. Trailing off too often shows a person who is mostly tentative…

  • The difference between its and it's:
    "it's" (with the apostrophe) is just short for "it is". That's it.
    "its" (without the apostrophe) means belonging to "it", the possessive case. ("Its legs were weird").

  • The difference between lets and let's:
    "let's" (with the apostrophe) is just short for "let us". That's it, again.
    "lets" (without the apostrophe) is used, simply put, in cases which are not "let us" - like, "He always lets us in."

  • "does'nt" and "are'nt" are wrong.
    They should be "doesn't" and "aren't". The single quote stands for something missing in the short form, which in these cases is an "o". Similarly, 'n' for "and" (as in Guns 'n' Roses), 'cos for "becos" (which itself is an illegal spelling, actually, but you really don't care) etc.

  • U.S is wrong. It should be U. S. or US or U S - again, U.S. is wrong; i. e. there should be a space between U. and S.

  • Names should always start with capital letters, except in informal email-ish writing. And if a name has multiple words, all of those should start with capital letters.

    Example:

    Wrong: "The song Pardesi pardesi jana nahi in Raja hindustani is quite good…"
    Correct: "The song Pardesi Pardesi Jana Nahi in Raja Hindustani is quite good…"

    Pardesi Pardesi Jana Nahi is the name of a song and Raja Hindustani is the name of a film, so all words start with capital letters.


  • GRAMMAR

    Again, very involved, but we present here some common errors, in the decreasing order of frequency.

    [list=1]
  • The Relative Clause:

    The most common grammatical flaw. If you get this right, you are good. Look at this sentence:

    Wrong: "Divine Comedy, the great Italian classic was written by Dante."
    Correct: "Divine Comedy, the great Italian classic, was written by Dante."


    The phrase "the great Italian classic" is called a relative clause. It is characterized by two things:
    [list=a]
  • It has commas before and after it (or, sometimes, hyphens before and after), and

  • Even if it is removed (along with the commas), the sentence is grammatically right (Divine Comedy was written by Dante).

  • Most people do not put the second comma several times. Remember, if the part can be removed with the sentence still being grammatically right, then it either has commas both before and after, or (in some cases) neither before nor after. But not just one comma.

    Other examples of relative clauses:

    Correct: "Even summer, normally a season characterized by high temperatures, is pleasant in Australia."

    For practice, pick up any daily newspaper (except perhaps The Hindu's main edition), and try to find such errors. They abound :) .

    If you want to insert a sentence/phrase in another sentence, do it using hyphens:

    Correct: "I never wanted to see him again - and I don't suppose he wanted to see me either - but fate decreed otherwise."

    Here again, the part between the hyphens can be removed with the sentence still being grammatically correct.

  • Subject Singular - Its Usage As Plural:

    Look at this sentence:

    Wrong: "None of us are capable of that."

    None is short for no one, and so is singular. In effect, this sentence reads, "No one of us are capable of that." Obviously, it's wrong. It should be, "No one of us is capable of that." Or, as

    Correct: "None of us is capable of that."

    Here the subject of the sentence (none) was singular, and its usage (are) is plural, which is wrong. This one (stuff starting with none) is a popular error.

    Other examples of such mistakes:

    Wrong: "Everyone of the members, including life members, were asked to show their tickets."
    Correct: "Everyone of the members, including life members, was asked to show his/her ticket."


    Wrong: "She is so fastidious that neither of the three houses were liked by her."
    Correct: "She is so fastidious that neither of the three houses was liked by her."

    (Neither here stands for not even one.)

    Wrong: "He is one of the shrewdest men that is in the organization."
    Correct: "He is one of the shrewdest men that are in the organization."

    (There are multiple shrewd men in the organization, and he is one of them.)

    Wrong: "Neither of the two students suspected in the 'missing-girl' case have so far been arrested."
    Correct: "Neither of the two students suspected in the 'missing-girl' case has so far been arrested."

    Wrong: "The lioness with her 4 cubs were caught by villagers and sent to the zoo."
    Correct: "The lioness with her 4 cubs was caught by villagers and sent to the zoo."


  • Difference Between "Few" And "A Few":
    Look at this sentence:

    "I know few people who can do it."
    This sentence does not mean that I know some people who can do it. It means that there are very less number of people - or actually no persons - who can do it. If you want to say that you know some people who can do it, you should say:

    "I know a few people who can do it."

  • Putting Commas Before "And":

    Which of these is correct?

    "I have oranges, peaches and pineapples."

    "I have oranges, peaches, and pineapples."


    We at fullhyd.com believe the first, where there is no comma before "and". Now look at this - which of the following is correct:

    "I have known him since childhood and his principles have always been beyond reproach."

    "I have known him since childhood, and his principles have always been beyond reproach."


    Here, the second, where there is a comma before "and", is correct.

    The logic is that when you are giving a series of similar things (fruits in the first case), then the and before the last object is not preceded by a comma. But if you are joining two different phrases with an "and" as in the second case, then there is a comma.

    Psychologically, when you put a comma, it means you want to stress the part following it - if you were speaking that sentence out instead of writing it, you would perhaps take a small pause there. Rather subtle, but you'll get the hang as you write (and read and speak) more and more English.

    More examples:

    Correct: "He's dead and gone to heaven."
    Wrong: "He's dead, and gone to heaven."


    Now "dead" and "gone to heaven" are not exactly similar things like fruits, but both of them use the "He's" as their beginning - that is, instead of writing "He's dead and he's gone to heaven", we are writing "He's dead and gone to heaven", and so "dead" and "gone to heaven" are similar in this context - they both join "He's". Hence no comma before "and".

    Similarly,

    Correct: "I met him, spoke to him and convinced him."

    However, in both the above cases, you can still put a comma before the "and" if you think the last part needs to be stressed (as we noted earlier).

    Correct: "Many of them failed the test, and some of them failed to score any marks at all."

  • These are just common errors, but taking care of these will make your writing at least 80% accurate. Like we said, we just wanted to point out common stuff.
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    Tips on good writing

    by mrk » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:28 pm

    Thanking you a lot for your guidelines..
    mrk
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    Tips on good writing

    by Kulcha Hyderabadi » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:35 pm

    Thanks to fullhyderabad.com team. Your efforts to encourage amateur writers is commendable and fully appreciated. Let's hope it gets better. Thanks.
    Kulcha Hyderabadi
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    Tips on good writing

    by fullhyd.com » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:42 pm

    Several people also constantly ask us why women on fullhyd.com's Personals section don't respond. Here are the actual reasons (no exaggerations):

    [list=1]
  • The English in 95% (really no exaggerations) of the messages is disastrous - it doesn't create a great impression about a person if he can't write 2 sentences elegantly.

  • Every message looks like every other: "hi, you seem like an interesting person, wanna be friends with me, call me at xyz or give me your yahoo id" Remember that a typical girl gets about 15 messages every day, and at least 13 of them read like this.

  • Most are copy-paste - the same message is sent to several persons. And some people forget to even change the name of the recipient when they are doing this.

  • Some guys do write elaborate and interesting stuff, which is good, but is almost completely about themselves. Give some indication that you've read the girl's profile, and customize. She has some favorite books, some favorite movies, something she's said about herself etc., right?
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    Tips on good writing

    by bull » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:45 pm

    appreciate the inputs by fullhyd.com and sincere thanks to the whole team of fullhyd.com for everything.

    'it is a great site'

    the only comment I can give here is that most of the posts are actually personal expressions of the poster. for example I am saying 'how do get so much energy baby?'
    some one may not agree with this but it is my personal expression at that particular moment, even I may not like it after some time, or I may be thinking "I shouldn't have said that" an so on...

    any ways thanks guys. 'YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB'
    bull
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    Tips on good writing

    by BM » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:51 pm

    Good tips, thanks.
    BM
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    Tips on good writing

    by b. » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:57 pm

    One way we can solve this issue is by expanding the registered-user base of females at fullhyd.com

    there aren't really that many of them any way.

    and what happens if a nice guy writes in bad english to them, who is the loser is here?
    b.
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    Tips on good writing

    by pavani » Mon Aug 18, 2003 9:54 pm

    Very nice tips sirs. I will keep these in mind and improve my English greatly!
    pavani
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    Tips on good writing

    by ab » Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:00 pm

    How can we get more females here b?

    (I mean to this site...)
    ab
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    Tips on good writing

    by neeraja » Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:33 pm

    Dear B,

    It's actually the contents on the board which matter and not the gender of the person writing them. How does it matter if it's male or female, as this board is not a dating site?
    neeraja
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    Tips on good writing

    by Kulcha Hyderabadi » Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:15 pm

    And who knows who' who? - hard to identify guys in gals' disguise!
    Kulcha Hyderabadi
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    Tips on good writing

    by b. » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:20 pm

    Hi Neeraja! With the due respect to your comment, what I am referring to is the second black para by fullhyd that speaks about why girls don't reply to guys on netpals.

    So what I am saying is if girls look only at the language and reject men, then what happens when a really nice guy writes to them in not-so-good english?

    Now for your second comment on the posts. Yes, it makes a big difference to any topic to be understood by men and women and discussed by men and women, as men and women.

    And, I don't think that people really disguise their gender on fullhyd. They seem pretty much straight forward.

    Am I making any sense? Please let me know.
    b.
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    English.. Hinglish.. or Tinglish

    by Asli_badmash » Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:27 pm

    Very informative!



    I understand why this post was written and rest assured I have learnt a lot form it. In fact, I printed it out and pasted on my message board at home. So I can keep learning from it.



    But, I think what matters is how you express yourself. And how your express yourself is a guage of where you are in your life. If I am a teenager.. I will post topics like "how to marry Sania Mirza.."( Badmash :roll: and shakes his head while thinking please teenagers save us your harmonal bouts )... Some people talk about random events in their lives or just about any damn thing. What's important is how effectively are you getting your point across. Hinglish.. Tinglish... or ENGLISH doesnt matter.



    Me thinks!



    1. Message borads serve a purpose. They allow you to express yourself and how I write should not be a guage of my character.



    2. If I write prim and proper English doesnt necessarily mean that I dont mean to get into your pants. On the contraray it would mean I am trying to impress you to get into your pants. Girls beware!



    3. And girls dont go out on dates with people who send them their introductions on Net; I think it works a little differently. But what do I know I am a guy.



    4. I may have broken all the above mentioned rules.. But, who cares.



    Manam manam dostulum bhai.. khao piyo maja karo.. Kya English winglish... Angrez chale gaya.. par angrezi peche reh gayi dekho... Zara paan de miyan... aree Narsing.. Chepu bhai... Poragallu English kosam kinda mida aeitunaru...



    I hope I have accurately captured the HYDERABADI-Telengana spirit!



    Jai Kota Srinivas Rao.. Jai TKB...
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    That was informative!

    by Jekyll and Hyde'rabadi' » Fri Jan 30, 2004 10:21 pm

    Dear fullhyd team,



    Thanx for the write-up. Made me do a little thinking about my style(?). :wink:
    Jekyll and Hyde'rabadi'
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    english

    by akhilis2cool » Tue Apr 06, 2004 7:01 pm

    the tips were fine.....i will try to use them regularly



    thanks





    But we are like this only :shock:
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    by Jus Kiddin » Fri May 21, 2004 3:43 pm

    Veryy Verry Good Tipps Saar, I highly and also really appriciate your Tipps
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    f

    by SimarikSmokin » Tue Nov 30, 2004 6:28 am

    i think you should write on what you feel
    Huete treff ich einen Herrn
    Der hat mich zum Fressen gern
    Weiche Teile und auch harte
    stehen auf der Speisekarte

    Denn du bist
    was du isst
    und ihr wisst
    was es ist
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    good one buddy

    by you continue to impress me » Thu Dec 02, 2004 1:06 am

    i just went thrpugh ur mess i am new to this site and let me tell u fullhyd to cont to impress me......
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    eMail (mal)English ...

    by HH » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:37 pm

    eMail (mal)English ...


    What Corporate America Can't Build: A Sentence

    December 7, 2004
    By SAM DILLON



    BLOOMINGTON, Ill. - R. Craig Hogan, a former university
    professor who heads an online school for business writing
    here, received an anguished e-mail message recently from a
    prospective student.

    "i need help," said the message, which was devoid of
    punctuation. "i am writing a essay on writing i work for
    this company and my boss want me to help improve the
    workers writing skills can yall help me with some
    information thank you".

    Hundreds of inquiries from managers and executives seeking
    to improve their own or their workers' writing pop into Dr.
    Hogan's computer in-basket each month, he says, describing
    a number that has surged as e-mail has replaced the phone
    for much workplace communication. Millions of employees
    must write more frequently on the job than previously. And
    many are making a hash of it.

    "E-mail is a party to which English teachers have not been
    invited," Dr. Hogan said. "It has companies tearing their
    hair out."

    A recent survey of 120 American corporations reached a
    similar conclusion. The study, by the National Commission
    on Writing, a panel established by the College Board,
    concluded that a third of employees in the nation's
    blue-chip companies wrote poorly and that businesses were
    spending as much as $3.1 billion annually on remedial
    training.

    The problem shows up not only in e-mail but also in reports
    and other texts, the commission said.

    "It's not that companies want to hire Tolstoy," said Susan
    Traiman, a director at the Business Roundtable, an
    association of leading chief executives whose corporations
    were surveyed in the study. "But they need people who can
    write clearly, and many employees and applicants fall short
    of that standard."

    Millions of inscrutable e-mail messages are clogging
    corporate computers by setting off requests for
    clarification, and many of the requests, in turn, are also
    chaotically written, resulting in whole cycles of
    confusion.

    Here is one from a systems analyst to her supervisor at a
    high-tech corporation based in Palo Alto, Calif.: "I
    updated the Status report for the four discrepancies Lennie
    forward us via e-mail (they in Barry file).. to make sure
    my logic was correct It seems we provide Murray with
    incorrect information ... However after verifying controls
    on JBL - JBL has the indicator as B ???? - I wanted to make
    sure with the recent changes - I processed today - before
    Murray make the changes again on the mainframe to 'C'."

    The incoherence of that message persuaded the analyst's
    employers that she needed remedial training.

    "The more electronic and global we get, the less important
    the spoken word has become, and in e-mail clarity is
    critical," said Sean Phillips, recruitment director at
    another Silicon Valley corporation, Applera, a supplier of
    equipment for life science research, where most employees
    have advanced degrees. "Considering how highly educated our
    people are, many can't write clearly in their day-to-day
    work."

    Some $2.9 billion of the $3.1 billion the National
    Commission on Writing estimates that corporations spend
    each year on remedial training goes to help current
    employees, with the rest spent on new hires. The
    corporations surveyed were in the mining, construction,
    manufacturing, transportation, finance, insurance, real
    estate and service industries, but not in wholesale,
    retail, agriculture, forestry or fishing, the commission
    said. Nor did the estimate include spending by government
    agencies to improve the writing of public servants.

    An entire educational industry has developed to offer
    remedial writing instruction to adults, with hundreds of
    public and private universities, for-profit schools and
    freelance teachers offering evening classes as well as
    workshops, video and online courses in business and
    technical writing.

    Kathy Keenan, a onetime legal proofreader who teaches
    business writing at the University of California Extension,
    Santa Cruz, said she sought to dissuade students from
    sending business messages in the crude shorthand they
    learned to tap out on their pagers as teenagers.

    "hI KATHY i am sending u the assignmnet again," one student
    wrote to her recently. "i had sent you the assignment
    earlier but i didnt get a respond. If u get this assgnment
    could u please respond . thanking u for ur cooperation."

    Most of her students are midcareer professionals in
    high-tech industries, Ms. Keenan said.

    The Sharonview Federal Credit Union in Charlotte, N.C.,
    asked about 15 employees to take a remedial writing course.
    Angela Tate, a mortgage processor, said the course
    eventually bolstered her confidence in composing e-mail,
    which has replaced much work she previously did by phone,
    but it was a daunting experience, since she had been out of
    school for years. "It was a challenge all the way through,"
    Ms. Tate said.

    Even C.E.O.'s need writing help, said Roger S. Peterson, a
    freelance writer in Rocklin, Calif., who frequently coaches
    executives. "Many of these guys write in inflated language
    that desperately needs a laxative," Mr. Peterson said, and
    not a few are defensive. "They're in denial, and who's
    going to argue with the boss?"

    But some realize their shortcomings and pay Mr. Peterson to
    help them improve. Don Morrison, a onetime auditor at
    Deloitte & Touche who has built a successful consulting
    business, is among them.

    "I was too wordy," Mr. Morrison said. "I liked long,
    convoluted passages rather than simple four-word sentences.
    And I had a predilection for underlining words and throwing
    in multiple exclamation points. Finally Roger threatened to
    rip the exclamation key off my keyboard."

    Exclamation points were an issue when Linda Landis Andrews,
    who teaches at the University of Illinois at Chicago, led a
    workshop in May for midcareer executives at an automotive
    corporation based in the Midwest. Their exasperated
    supervisor had insisted that the men improve their writing.


    "I get a memo from them and cannot figure out what they're
    trying to say," the supervisor wrote Ms. Andrews.

    When at her request the executives produced letters they
    had written to a supplier who had failed to deliver parts
    on time, she was horrified to see that tone-deaf writing
    had turned a minor business snarl into a corporate
    confrontation moving toward litigation.

    "They had allowed a hostile tone to creep into the
    letters," she said. "They didn't seem to understand that
    those letters were just toxic."

    "People think that throwing multiple exclamation points
    into a business letter will make their point forcefully,"
    Ms. Andrews said. "I tell them they're allowed two
    exclamation points in their whole life."

    Not everyone agrees. Kaitlin Duck Sherwood of San
    Francisco, author of a popular how-to manual on effective
    e-mail, argued in an interview that exclamation points
    could help convey intonation, thereby avoiding confusion in
    some e-mail.

    "If you want to indicate stronger emphasis, use all capital
    letters and toss in some extra exclamation points," Ms.
    Sherwood advises in her guide, available at
    http://www.webfoot.com, where she offers a vivid example:

    ">Should I boost the power on the thrombo?

    "NO!!!! If you
    turn it up to eleven, you'll overheat the motors, and IT
    MIGHT EXPLODE!!"

    Dr. Hogan, who founded his online Business Writing Center a
    decade ago after years of teaching composition at Illinois
    State University here, says that the use of multiple
    exclamation points and other nonstandard punctuation like
    the :-) symbol, are fine for personal e-mail but that
    companies have erred by allowing experimental writing
    devices to flood into business writing.

    He scrolled through his computer, calling up examples of
    incoherent correspondence sent to him by prospective
    students.

    "E-mails - that are received from Jim and I are not either
    getting open or not being responded to," the purchasing
    manager at a construction company in Virginia wrote in one
    memorandum that Dr. Hogan called to his screen. "I wanted
    to let everyone know that when Jim and I are sending out
    e-mails (example- who is to be picking up parcels) I am
    wanting for who ever the e-mail goes to to respond back to
    the e-mail. Its important that Jim and I knows that the
    person, intended, had read the e-mail. This gives an
    acknowledgment that the task is being completed. I am
    asking for a simple little 2 sec. Note that says "ok", "I
    got it", or Alright."

    The construction company's human resources director
    forwarded the memorandum to Dr. Hogan while enrolling the
    purchasing manager in a writing course.

    "E-mail has just erupted like a weed, and instead of
    considering what to say when they write, people now just
    let thoughts drool out onto the screen,"
    Dr. Hogan said.
    "It has companies at their wits' end."
    [/i]


    -------------------

    Visit:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/07/busin ... 3fa2deb6ba
    Build Heaven & Earth Links!
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    Re: Tips on good writing

    by akhilis2cool » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:03 pm

    fullhyd.com wrote:Several people also constantly ask us why women on fullhyd.com NetPals don't respond. Here are the actual reasons (no exaggerations):
    [list=1]
  • The English in 95% (really no exaggerations) of the messages is disastrous - it doesn't create a great impression about a person if he can't write 2 sentences elegantly.

  • Every message looks like every other: "hi, you seem like an interesting person, wanna be friends with me, call me at xyz or give me your yahoo id" Remember that a typical girl gets about 15 messages every day, and at least 13 of them read like this.

  • Most are copy-paste - the same message is sent to several persons. And some people forget to even change the name of the recipient when they are doing this.

  • Some guys do write elaborate and interesting stuff, which is good, but is almost completely about themselves. Give some indication that you've read the girl's profile, and customize. She has some favorite books, some favorite movies, something she's said about herself etc., right?

  • what say mods?
    Has the quality of writing improved since u posted this topic?
    People are crazy, at times are strange. I am locked-in tight, I am out of range.
    I used to care, but things have changed.
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    3 Rs Of Good Writing

    by HH » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:52 am

    akhilis2cool wrote:...
    ... the quality of writing ...?




    3 Rs Of Good Writing ...


    * R - Radiate ... ORIGINAL ... Like The Sun, The Source Of Energy, Heat & Light
    * R - Reflect ... COOL ... Like The Moon ... Absorb The Heat Of The Sun & Reflect Cool Light ... Spread Sense & Appreciation
    * R - Refine ... Redefine ... Review ... Add Your Vision / Understanding ...
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    Good Writing Is For REAL ... Not A "Swapnam" / &qu

    by HH » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:00 pm

    chinna wrote:www.swapnalokam.com*****




    eh?kya?! ... ***** Good Writing Is For REAL ... Not A "Swapnam" / "Dream" ... - Write ... Rewrite ... Strive For Perfection!
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    by Ramaa » Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:20 am

    what is that ?
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    Perfection!

    by HH » Sat Jul 01, 2006 1:04 pm

    Ramaa wrote:what is that***** ?




    ***** That's Perfection!



    :)
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