Assisted death

[Johnny]

Death is as natural as birth. In some ways u can compare euthanasia with abortion. In both cases, there can be many endless arguments. What is right? What is wrong? all depends on a person's beliefs.



Coming to the point. Karma theory does exist., and it is much beyond all these conflicts.



No matter how a patient dies, be it euthanasia or natural death, i think it was pre-decided for him that way. So, infact even euthanasia was in his karma, that was how he was supposed to die.

So plainly, no one is violating anything here. He is getting wat he deserves.

[CtrlAltDel]

'i cant spend more on you oldies, its enough".

Spending anything to cure is fine. if nothing can be cured and its just spending to wait for death, while the patient is connected to a machine...then its justified. fyi, there was a discussion in my family recently on this subject and even my Dad n a few uncles supported the concept. understndably, the ladies were against it...they r more ruled by sentiments than practicality.

[ZC]

'i cant spend more on you oldies, its enough".

Spending anything to cure is fine. if nothing can be cured and its just spending to wait for death, while the patient is connected to a machine...then its justified. fyi, there was a discussion in my family recently on this subject and even my Dad n a few uncles supported the concept. understndably, the ladies were against it...they r more ruled by sentiments than practicality.

sorry to say, for most men, saving money=practical, spending money=impractical.



height of savings

[CtrlAltDel]

sorry to say, for most men, saving money=practical, spending money=impractical.

u can spend only if u have money...when all's exhausted, notes print karega kya?

[ZC]

Death is as natural as birth. In some ways u can compare euthanasia with abortion. In both cases, there can be many endless arguments. What is right? What is wrong? all depends on a person's beliefs.

Coming to the point. Karma theory does exist., and it is much beyond all these conflicts.

No matter how a patient dies, be it euthanasia or natural death, i think it was pre-decided for him that way. So, infact even euthanasia was in his karma, that was how he was supposed to die.
So plainly, no one is violating anything here. He is getting wat he deserves.

daa-ne daan-ne pe kaane wala ka naam likha gaya hain



shivu-daagyan leni-de chee-maina kuttu-du

[ZC]

sorry to say, for most men, saving money=practical, spending money=impractical.

u can spend only if u have money...when all's exhausted, notes print karega kya?

what r the poor people doing......? coz they dont have the money, r they killing ? they still serve ......whatever they can........

[Johnny]

Death is as natural as birth. In some ways u can compare euthanasia with abortion. In both cases, there can be many endless arguments. What is right? What is wrong? all depends on a person's beliefs.

Coming to the point. Karma theory does exist., and it is much beyond all these conflicts.

No matter how a patient dies, be it euthanasia or natural death, i think it was pre-decided for him that way. So, infact even euthanasia was in his karma, that was how he was supposed to die.
So plainly, no one is violating anything here. He is getting wat he deserves.

daa-ne daan-ne pe kaane wala ka naam likha gaya hain



shivu-daagyan leni-de chee-maina kuttu-du

Eggzatly

[Lucifer]

People have expressed their reservations over pulling the plug by saying that we have no right to decide someone's fate or play God. It might sound very odd but is not the very fact that we tried to play God the reason for someone's long-drawn suffering? Earlier there were no such things as life-support, cancer-drugs, etc. So, people died sooner. Then we had advances in medical science and life-expectancy has improved. But, should that be the reason for someone going through enormous pain?



Karma has been cited, too. People before passing judgement on euthanasia place yourselves in the shoes of a cancer patient. Do you have any idea how much agony and pain there is? It is unimaginable. And, the patient is sufferring today only because we did stuff like chemotherapy and all to him and only succeeded in prolonging his agony. Fine, there was that chance for him to survive. But, now there is no hope. So, should we let him suffer just because modern methods of cure failed? Trust me, if he had any idea that he would have had to go through this he would gladly have refused any treatment and died much sooner.

[ZC]

How are medical mysteries explained......Dr. also gives-up hope and patient recovers........



What if u had already killed him even before there was a chance of a mystery........dont say that its one in a million.



y cant this person be that one in a million.....there are many things which are beyond human understanding........and better not poke finger into these.......Already Man had messed up the environment and nature.....no further poking finger at Natural things plz......

[Jaszalcatraz]

Lucifers got a good point........in our effort to save them, we are giving them more suffering. but then lotsa other ppl are saved by these.



Sorry for the digression but I had to compare this with AP's policy.

By giving farmers a compensation, we're making they're option of commiting suicide easier.



Coming back to the point.......Lucifers got a good point

[ZC]

Lucifers got a good point........in our effort to save them, we are giving them more suffering. but then lotsa other ppl are saved by these.

Sorry for the digression but I had to compare this with AP's policy.
By giving farmers a compensation, we're making they're option of commiting suicide easier.

Coming back to the point.......Lucifers got a good point

true....dont ever take ur family to a hospital....u never know ...ur increasing their pain........

[Lucifer]

How are medical mysteries explained......Dr. also gives-up hope and patient recovers........

What if u had already killed him even before there was a chance of a mystery........dont say that its one in a million.

y cant this person be that one in a million.....there are many things which are beyond human understanding........and better not poke finger into these.......Already Man had messed up the environment and nature.....no further poking finger at Natural things plz......

You missed the point. All I am saying is would the patient have survived if he had not been put on life-support? The answer is no. So, may be that was the will of God and we interfered with it in the first place. And, you talk of medical mysteries where people come back to life. I will quote on that:



Jaako raakhe saayian maar sake na koe



Translated it means that you can do no harm to a person who is looked after by God. And, I presume only such people ever recover in mysterious ways. It that person would be that one in the million he would recover anyway.

[ZC]

How are medical mysteries explained......Dr. also gives-up hope and patient recovers........

What if u had already killed him even before there was a chance of a mystery........dont say that its one in a million.

y cant this person be that one in a million.....there are many things which are beyond human understanding........and better not poke finger into these.......Already Man had messed up the environment and nature.....no further poking finger at Natural things plz......

You missed the point. All I am saying is would the patient have survived if he had not been put on life-support? The answer is no. So, may be that was the will of God and we interfered with it in the first place. And, you talk of medical mysteries where people come back to life. I will quote on that:

Jaako raakhe saayian maar sake na koe

Translated it means that you can do no harm to a person who is looked after by God. And, I presume only such people ever recover in mysterious ways. It that person would be that one in the million he would recover anyway.

i already said that....shivudi aagyan leni de cheemaina kuttadu...meaning, even ant doenst bite with out Lord Shiva orders....



my argument is on peoples attitude "......okay, lets kill him".....i hope u got my point......

[Lucifer]

I got your point. I am not sure you got mine.

[asli_badmash]

my argument is on peoples attitude "......okay, lets kill him".....i hope u got my point......

Your arguments while they seem selfless are very selfish....

Just because YOU want to see a person half alive YOU want to keep that person alive... Now who is playing GOD. Maybe it is their time to die. You are denying that to that person. Have you ever seen into the eyes of a person who knows nothing can be done.. They are like.. let me go. I cant bear this anymore.

So what is the decent thing to do... You decide!

Before you make an argument.. please put yourself in the place of the people who suffer.

Few points....

- Death is inevitable... Everybody and everything dies and gets recycled.

- What is Karma ? Karama is weak people's way of pushing the blame of their wrong choices on an unknown factor.

Every thing in this world behaves according to the law of causaulity which stems from the daily choices we make. For example: A girls parents get her married to a man who is a drunkard. The girl suffers endlessly thinking it is her KARMA. But It was not her KARMA... her parents and she was at fault here. They didnt check the antecedents of the guy before agreeing for the marraige. So is this Karma or just a case of bad choice. Coming to the point.. just because the parents didnt choose a guy properly the girl will suffer in her life. NO KARMA~VARMA. (CAD's point)

ZC; You argue that its not right to play GOD. But what is Medicine doing these days. If some medical emergency happens to you.. dont go to a doctor. Just think it is your Karma and suffer through it. May be you will live.. maybe you wont. That is KARMA theory in its purest form.

Go home and tell ur parents and relatives. Say "i support euthanasia, if one of u falls terminally ill". no more discussion. God bless u.

Why dont YOU go home and tell your old folk.. Just because I beleive in KARAMA and dont like playing GOD if any of you become ill I will not take you to the Hospital. This is your Karma and you will have to bear the pain and suffer.. I dont care I will stick to my principles.



Also, You obviously are not poor... you obviosuly dont know what it is to live with a cataract in one eye just because you dont have the money to get an operation done. You obviously dont know how painfull it is to spit blood every morning... know you have cancer and still not be able to do anything about it. Money does play a part in peoples life, when I say that I am being very practical.



All I am saying is yes I beleive in pulling the plug... But before that I will try to do as much as possible, but there comes a point where nothing can be done. The decent thing to do is to PULL THE PLUG, which obviously will be the last option. Period...!



~badmash~

[CtrlAltDel]

get the point ZC....?



as these guys said, why go to a doctor? the disease is the patient's karma...let him/her endure it...

[Johnny]

get the point ZC....?

as these guys said, why go to a doctor? the disease is the patient's karma...let him/her endure it...

Wohoooooooooooooo CAD and Asli_badmash u ppl got many misconceptions. First understand what karma is exactly... Cad wat u said above is simply a child's argument.

Asli_badmash : CAUSALITY is a mask on the face of DESTINY.



Karma doesnt mean u forget ur duties towards a person. If my parents fall ill, my duty towards them is my karma.. i have to do it.. i have to try my max. to save them. Its my karma as their son. Got it?

And even if someguy doesnt take the parents to the hospital, its the parents karma dat made them have such an idiotic son.

So ultimately everything is Karma related. And please dont call it a simple trash without understanding. It hurts sentiments of many a ppl here.



Too much logic also leads to stupidity. Dnt be too open minded to let ur brains fall off.

[Lucifer]

get the point ZC....?

as these guys said, why go to a doctor? the disease is the patient's karma...let him/her endure it...

Wohoooooooooooooo CAD and Asli_badmash u ppl got many misconceptions. First understand what karma is exactly... Cad wat u said above is simply a child's argument.
Asli_badmash : CAUSALITY is a mask on the face of DESTINY.


Karma doesnt mean u forget ur duties towards a person. If my parents fall ill, my duty towards them is my karma.. i have to do it.. i have to try my max. to save them. Its my karma as their son. Got it?
And even if someguy doesnt take the parents to the hospital, its the parents karma dat made them have such an idiotic son.
So ultimately everything is Karma related. And please dont call it a simple trash without understanding. It hurts sentiments of many a ppl here.

Too much logic also leads to stupidity. Dnt be too open minded to let ur brains fall off.

And, is it our Karma to read words like 'dat', 'wat', etc.?

[asli_badmash]

Asli_badmash : CAUSALITY is a mask on the face of DESTINY.

Maybe my words were strong.. I apologioze for having been rude. But I beg to differ; Me thinks.. CAUSALITY defines DESTINY(If there is something like that). You are the choices you make.

Karma doesnt mean u forget ur duties towards a person. If my parents fall ill, my duty towards them is my karma.. i have to do it.. i have to try my max. to save them. Its my karma as their son. Got it?

Its not KARMA... It a choice you are making. You can choose not to save them. Dont push simple descisions of life onto something COSMIC. I think life is simpler than that.

And even if someguy doesnt take the parents to the hospital, its the parents karma dat made them have such an idiotic son.

No... Its not the parents KARMA. The dude is just as A**hole, who is not grateful to his parents for having fed him taken care of him when he was baby. In the need of hour, the dude is bailing on his parents. He is basically a carp-bag. Its as simple as that. The dude choose not to help his parents, nothing cosmic or destiny about it.

So ultimately everything is Karma related. And please dont call it a simple trash without understanding. It hurts sentiments of many a ppl here.
Too much logic also leads to stupidity. Dnt be too open minded to let ur brains fall off.

Maybe there is something to KARMA. I beleive it is a theory invented by illuminati to make a simpleton understand why he has to be good. Let me tell you a story.



In very old times there lived a simpleton.. A very nice person. He used to do good to everyone and always be nice to his realtives and neighbours. One day he got up and found he was suffering from a rare disease. The relatives and neighbors deserted him in the hour of need.



He recovered and decided he is not going to be good anymore. But he was conflicted about it. So he went to a sage and asked the sage "I have been good all the time, but in my hour of need everyone deserted me, why should I be good to them." The sage replied "It is your KARMA that you suffered and it is their KARMA that they deserted you in your hour of need. And since they did this to you, it is now their KARMA to be deserted in their hour of need. You keep doing your good deeds and you will have a good KARMA in this life and the next."



The point being... The sage had to convince the simpleton to continue his good deeds in face of adversity. So he attached the concept of a reward.. KARMA. And it was made forever by saying its attached to your soul. So the simpleton had to be good now.



Further.. this proves that KARMA is a concept attached to work through your sense of greed. The better things you do in this life... the better KARMA you will have in this life and the next. Why next life? because some smart simpletons thought, maybe what we do in this life stays here. But no the sage was smart he was like "Dude... I know you might think once I die Its over.. but no.. KARMA follows you around to the next life too. So behave your self you duffer". And hence this is the theory of Karma... AS I UNDERSTAND IT.



And please have an open mind. New things can only enrich it. Having a close mind can only make people rigid and narrow minded. Nothing good comes of closing your mind.



I didnt mean to offend anybody here with my words.. I am just presenting what I think.



~badmash~

[mysteriousbabe]

I went thru this situation some 6 months back.......my father in law was critically ill and doctors had given up hope...infact intially they said 48 hours finally had even come down to 4-5 hours.......we knew things were not gonna work out.....also we couldnt c him suffer......he was gng thru so much pain........though we all knew that things r not gng to work out my fly couldnt make the decision to pull the plug.......its really hard.....i mean though u know the person is not gng to survive and is gng thru a lot of pain there is some hope somewhere that porb things could work out...i mean u actually wait for some miracle to happen......



about the money part .......u know u r spending a lot of money but somewhere u have that hope that the person will recover......and at that point in time money isnt that imp as compared to the person.....



if u have to decide to pull the plug later then the family shouldnt have the feeling that what they did was wrong......its more of an emotional situation and rational thinking is not possible then

[Arch]

1)What happens to the 'soul' or 'life' or the thinking power or the emotions or the feelings or whatever u wish to call it, after one dies? This is a general question to all of my fullhyd family. whoever cares to put in their persepective, welcome.



Secondly, in regards to 'Karma', all of u must have heard something called 'it kindda just happened'.



There was that man who went out of the WTC towers to get his briefcase from his car, after reaching his 79th floor and the first plane hit. He survived. There was this other lady who was scheduled to visit her sick mother in the hospital at 9am but instead had to go for her Boss' 8:30am conference in the first tower. She perished while the Boss survived.



CAD? Asli ? Lucifer ?



Each one of us may have several such experiences, life-taking, life saving, life making, life changing situations... Maybe, that IS karma?



Karma, as I presently understand (it is presently comforting, personally) is that way of life which is chosen by the soul for the various experiences that it yearns for during the course of living in the present birth.



BTW,ZC, I believe in euthanasia for myself after evry medical help that I have the capacity to take. I understand that I am being very selfish here by asking my loved ones to make that decision of mine work. It will be that much more tougher for them to take that decision and let go of me.



Why selfish? They are the ones left behind (by me) with the memories and feelings of having taken that decision for their enitre life time. Whereas I, araam se, might have just scooted off to another plane of life?



If I have to make a decision for my loved ones, I guess I will choose euthanaisa after every medical help that I 'can' give them along with lots of love and care.

[Alexis]

Death is as natural as birth. In some ways u can compare euthanasia with abortion. In both cases, there can be many endless arguments. What is right? What is wrong? all depends on a person's beliefs.

I agree with you, Johnny. Except where you say that

"No matter how a patient dies, be it euthanasia or natural death, i think it was pre-decided for him that way."

Arent you and the doctors playing GOD by pulling the plug? You cant create life, so how can you snuff the life out of someone? When it comes to abortion, Im Pro-Choice. But with euthanasia, Im definitely against it. There is a difference between abortion and euthanasia too, although there are similarities as well.

[asli_badmash]

1)What happens to the 'soul' or 'life' or the thinking power or the emotions or the feelings or whatever u wish to call it, after one dies? This is a general question to all of my fullhyd family. whoever cares to put in their persepective, welcome.

What happens to us after death ? I guess E=mc(2) takes over and the mass of our body is transformed to energy and then maybe to another form.



Soul - Dont know. Cant define it. Hence cant say!



Emotions - I guess die with our conciousness.



If you look at human body as a collection of chemical substances. Then above said statements are TRUE. But I dont know if it is that simple.. or maybe it is.



But all in all I dont know... cant say... I guess the only way to find out is when you die. Dont worry about that too much. Just make sure you live a good life and be happy.



~badmash~

[asli_badmash]

"No matter how a patient dies, be it euthanasia or natural death, i think it was pre-decided for him that way."

Arent you and the doctors playing GOD by pulling the plug? You cant create life, so how can you snuff the life out of someone? When it comes to abortion, Im Pro-Choice. But with euthanasia, Im definitely against it. There is a difference between abortion and euthanasia too, although there are similarities as well.

Well.. I can argue that in case of abortion.. the lady makes a choice for the fetus. Who gave the right to the lady to play GOD. The lady didnt create the Baby. God did... in fact its hard wired into the body and the genes to grow a certain way. So lady is just being a host to a process that has taken thousand of years to evolve. The lady doesnot create the BABY.. she is just a host.



The fetus is considered a living being when the sperm fertilizes the Egg. If for natural reasons the fetus dies. Its considered to be a natural death. But if you choose to kill the fetus.. you pulled the PLUG.



Abortion is actually worse than euthanasia. The fetus has a perfect chance of survival and actually becoming an individual. The person on the death bed hasnt got any chance of survival. so you tell me which is bad. Euthanasia or Abortion.



By the way, I am conflicted about pro-choice, sometimes I think the lady has the right to decide... sometimes I think let the baby come into the world.. God sent it, he will take care of it. But I certainly am pro-euthanasia.



~badmash~

[asli_badmash]

"No matter how a patient dies, ...for him that way."

world.. God sent it, he will take care of it. But I certainly am pro-euthanasia.
~badmash~

Hey.. why is my post count not increasing. . Its stuck at 217.



~badmash~