premarital sex

[Fiddler]

Like I\'ve said before, just because a woman has had sex before getting married doesn\'t mean she\'s got a tendency to sleep around. Maybe she loved and trusted the man enough to give herself to him completely and, just because the relationship finally didn\'t work out, it doesn\'t mean that she\'s going to sleep with every man in sight. A woman can\'t be written off just based on not being a virgin!

[hiall]

dear neeraja...now a days...many products are out in market...which have a look of old ones....and mind u these are costlier than their new looking counter parts
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[JustaLittleUnwell]

Fiddler, i\'m not being judgemental here, and I\'m not referring to morality of women alone. Same standards apply to both men and women.
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<br>Coming to the specific situation you refer to, I would have expected that the woman would have acted wiser and would have known better. Apparently, she agreed to the act in anticipation of a marital relationship. It\'s like a transaction where a lender lends to a borrower hoping that he/she would repay. If the repayment doesnt happen (for various reasons), the lender is left with a bad debt, as a result of his/her bad judgement. If the woman in question realizes her mistake (for it is human to err), she definitely doesn\'t have to be \'written off\' - however, if she insists that she did the right thing, I would probably not go for her.
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<br>PS - Btw, any way of reviving our \'hook up\' plans? Since I can recognize you from the snaps, I can come down and meet at any place you suggest, if i\'m free at the time.

[Habitual Perfectionist]

Unwell.....looking at your point by the same logic, don\'t you think abstension from pre-marital sex is also acting in anticipation of the unknown and unexpected? Which, in my opinion, is worse than acting in anticipation of the expected.

[Fiddler]

As usual, I disagree Of course, if a woman were to give herself to a man she\'s in love with, it\'d be with the hope of being together with him. But that doesn\'t make the decision a mistake if the relationship doesn\'t work out. Who decides what is \'wrong\' anyway? Society. And Society\'s view is composed of the view of individuals. And, in this case, the views of individuals differ
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<br>About hooking up, things are crazy right now. Maybe sometime next week?

[CtrlAltDel]

That was very unhygienic of Fiddler...he took the words right out of my mouth....!
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<br>he\'s absolutely right. nothing wrong if 2 people in love have sex b4 marriage....as long as its safe sex. in case in future the relationship didn\'t work out...well, they have to move on without the baggage of guilt.
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<br>i think the main reason why most men want a virgin girl is that they dont want the girl to realise how lousy the guys are in bed...!
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<br>no experience....no knowledge...right...???!!!!

[Habitual Perfectionist-Tongue in Cheek]

Quote:
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<br>i think the main reason why most men want a virgin girl is that they dont want the girl to realise how lousy the guys are in bed...!
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<br>Were you speaking out of experience there, Ctrl bhai?
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[CtrlAltDel]

hahahahaha...!
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<br>touche....!
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<br>gimme time to think of a good repartee....!

[ABCD]

Neeraja You are fortunate to get married early , what about the women/men who are in 30 plus, who could not get married because of either they did not have jobs or family responsibilities. So they should not have sex? Who defined society norms, Are we following Manu (old maharshi) laws. If you are talking about absolute virginity
<br>People should never get aroused with sight of sexy ladies and handsome guys
<br>So fantasizing is other way loosing virginity spiritually hehe.
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<br>As you said its my Individual opinion, You may have yours too. But you don’t have implement it but if others do in India don’t discourage them. What’s the finite draw line for virginity , is it only penetration? What about guys/girls just felt private organs with out Having sex? Are they ½ virgins? What about me ? I always drive safely, since there is no Skin contact ; Am I virgin then ? What about people who fantasize and masturbate? Do they loose virginity mentally? Any how Its not logical to compare any products with private organs. Sex is a natural gift and use it at right time.
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[neeraja]

HI ABCD,
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<br>May I request Mr.Mayavi M to respond to your board on my behalf.

[HotShorts]

...remember this, all of u:
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<br>\"It isn\'t PREMARITAL sex if you have no intention of
<br>getting married.\"

[fried_green]

Hahaha! good one! hot shorts.

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Neeraja ji, I cant fathom that deep. I am at loss here. I myself am confused. Still I will make an attempt to answer ABCD\'s question from ur POV, follwed by my own observations.
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<br>IMO, Neeraja would say that nothing is more immoral than indulging in the actual act. Sex is for procreation only and thats our culture.
<br>My take on this: Human mind is uncontrollable, more so for mortals, u can never control thought. Sexual feelings and arousals are but human nature. So imagination doesnt make you lose virginity.
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<br>Random thoughts:
<br>Why is sex considered immoral? Not just premartial, but sex for recreation is considered immoral too. For this we need to dwelve thru ancient Indain thought process.
<br>Before that I found the answer for ABCD\'s origial question.\"Why do guys prefer Virgins?\"
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<br>For this I will quote one Mr.Ghaurang Bhatt, he posts on another forum and this is what he has to say, on a different topic (abortion):
<br>\"This control of female sexuality by the human male has a basis in not wanting to raise some other male\'s children. This has indirect bearing on male attempts to control abortion. More importantly the last point of the article was now that birth control is freely available and safe, there should be no reason to fret about any spouse\'s copulation with any outsider. The instincts that have evolved still cause intense jealousy, violence and murders in such instances. This is why the subtitle was pelvic prisoners paroled by the pill. \"
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<br>In simple words, its human nature (also animal nature) that men only want to see their gene spread. They donot want to raise others children. If we take a Lion pride, the pride leader will kill the cubs of Lioness which were born out of sex with the previous pride leader, before it starts having sex and producing its own cubs.
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<br>Man is more evolved than a Lion and has compassion. He doesnt kill other humans. So the best way to avoid this catch 22 situation is to marry a woman who he knows that didnt copulate with other males. And so is the preference for Virgins. Unfortunately females donot have this choice, as men only fertilize women and do not give birth. Every child she bears is a result of having sex with a man, and carries her genes, so she is not raising \'others\' childern.
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<br>But birth control pills and contaceptives have changed the situation. Now men and women can indulge in recreational sex without fearing precreation.
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<br>The Indian side of story:
<br>Ever since Indian civilization evolved, Vedic Indians pursued spiritual thoughts to conquer the internal unlike west which conquered the external. The aim of a vedic man is to learn, to understand god, understand nature and achieve Moksha.
<br>To achieve moksha, one needs to concentrate. Concentration means focussing of all energies on one thing and one thing only. Sex, wine, gambling etc were seen as hurdles for achieving Moksha. So abstentisim(?) was followed. Sanyasatvam. But to further human race they need to reproduce, so they married women and copulated and then accepted sanyasam.
<br>This is the Hindu twist to it.
<br>Busshists and christians follow abstentism to come closer to god.

[kiran]

informed and interesting ways you have put Mayavi, as always..ABCD, you will get to have similar situations very soon in India too as that of most of the West, if it has not already happened. Its just that you are NOT seeing it.
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<br>It saddens me though that it is happening so in our country too. Out here, I\'m seeing the repercurssions of such choices on the children out of such sexual encounters (how much ever they advocate about safe sex, it is never ever totally safe; the worst for the child is to have a single teen parent or is it to get killed by way of abortion), from several countries including from India.
<br>An infant born out of premarital sex has been brought here and has been adopted by aged Indian couple. The biological mother comes from a very well known high class family involved in premarital sex. Khair, the woman is now supposedly happily married to an unsuspecting youth.Anyways, what do you think that mother could be going through? inspite of all that dikhav of being happily married? there\'s something called memories..
<br>What about this lillte girl? She has been told at the age of 5 that she has been adopted.
<br>All this is for that feeling of what? hey, so who\'s around to lay with me? so that I can perform better at my job? so that I can release my sexual tensions? so that I do not need to get myself into unnecessary relationships..
<br>aw, comeon ABCD, you sounded so very sweet and thoughtful even about your sister and other female relatives of yours, I am sure you certainly would think of these little ones who absolutely do not have anything to do with their parents\' harmones acting up!

[tifosi]

I just dont understand y do people want to mix western culture with Indial culture. Premartial sex was not accepted in the west too, but due to some unavoidable situation they accepted it, but now they to are again reverting back. Their attitute is also changing. The western people themself respect our Indian culture, they y do u want to spoil our culture??????



As for ABCD has mentioned, in one of his messages he has mentioned

"I would not surely mind whom my mom dated before marriage or whom my dad slept with', now see over here u couldnt mention "whom my mom slept with" I feel this is because of our culture.



and someone else had mentioned abt premartial sex as to gaining experience. I(may be many) dont agree with this, The pleasure of knowing things along with ur spouce for the first time is much more than just the material pleasure of doing it perfectly due to experience.



and an another message stated that what if a person has not married till he goes beyond 30. those are very remote cases.



And as far a things go if u r not able to control ur sexual desire till u find ur perfect partner or spouce(i.e getting married) then u r a person without selfcontrol. (Mind this I'm not pointing anyone, and again this is just my opinion)



I a person wants to have sex outside marriage just for his/her personal satisfaction or pleasure then that person is notting less than a whore.

[tcp/ip]

fellas, my perceptions is people r not caring about 'social acceptability'. "If society doesn't accept it, letz not tell it" is the funda. Turst me, a lot is happening every where, even in small towns (i seem to come from happening lot?!)Cities are renouned for happening, jus our perception. Some does it jus for fun, some feel that as they don't even know who comes into life so why bother delaying the present gratification, ..anyway do u care why they do what they do?!



God created only sex, not marriage. So, instict rules one day or other.



And coming to what if one finds his/her patner to be 'experienced', then as one bhayya pointed out before..."There are lot beautiful things in life than to worry abotu ur partner's ex-partners"



discussion is going well..lage raho

[Its wrong]

Fiddler, well said. But in india, we a good culture like marriage and life time relation making with other gender. If you learn and practice everything before marriage from the age or 14 yrs or 15yrs, then definitely there wont be nothing to do after marriage, coz, by that time, you are already tasted everything in life, which may make you to go for always new things, that may spoil your life after marriage also.

Sex is just a part of life, its not the whole life. I think, its better to njoy that only with life partner, rather than njoying before marriage with anyone.



Ravi.

Er.., Neeraja, the parallel that you've drawn is neither valid nor very flattering to women. How can you compare women to chappals? Anyway, why is a woman 'spoiled' if she's not a virgin? I agree, there's a certain romantic appeal to saving yourself for your spouse, but then think about this: if a man or a woman have prior 'experience', wouldn't wouldn't they be better aware of how to give each other pleasure and, thereby, making the intimacy they share that much stronger? Also, if a man and a woman are deeply in love, why should they not give each other their bodies, like they give each other everything else? Why should that be 'wrong'?

[tifosi]

well said Ravi



I agree with ur view!!

[Listen Everybody]

Hello Everybody,



Do you know the exact problem? Actually, The Ladies will have a mind set that, Guyz will njoy Everything (i mean it) before marriage many times. Whats wrong if we do the same..( you know equal equal mentality). And guyz will think that who knows my future wife may be virgin or may not be, let us njoy before knowing her virginity. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.



All young ladies/old ladies, whoever said that morals/ethics are only for gulz not for guyz..?? YES CERTAINLY...i have many friends and even me who are virgins and till now not even touch any girl. Dont mean that we did not get a chance, may be we never tried for a chance or we ignored if we got the chance. Coz, We want to be like this till we get married.



About gulz or laides, I am not sure how many will be in control before marriage commiting physically with guyz?



Sex may end in few mins, but that feeling of love should remain for ever, and that is possible only with life partner, If you agree or not agree.



So, dont runafter tiffens, meals and dinner....just be cool and control.



Ravi.

well said Ravi

I agree with ur view!!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

Hello Everybody,

Do you know the exact problem? Actually, The Ladies will have a mind set that, Guyz will njoy Everything (i mean it) before marriage many times. Whats wrong if we do the same..( you know equal equal mentality). And guyz will think that who knows my future wife may be virgin or may not be, let us njoy before knowing her virginity. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

Is that the problem u re facing?

[tifosi]

Now come on Mayavi Morpheus lets have a healthy discussion abt the topic instead of putting things on others heads!!

[Mayavi Morpheus]

I just asked a question.

[Raj 33]

Well i am very much agree with MM that the sincerity and faithfulness which Neerja is talking of is after the marriage. After the marriage one should be faithfull and honest to his partner. But before marriage one is having his own life with his own pleasure and satisfaction. Thats why its said also that after marrige one is entering in a different life. Having premartial sex with a yr partner to whom u really love is not an offense and also it doesn't change the physically any thing in the woman. More over more experinced u are more u can satisfy yr partner and can help in finding each other's pleasure.

[ex-hydi]

I think we need a reality check here. You guys think pre-marital sex or for that matter post-marital affair is morally wrong. While I agree with you in principal...let me also suggest that married bliss is not all that blissfull or satisfying for a majority of couples. What is the result? A LOT of affairs or one night stands on biz trips and increasingly so! Granted, more men have them then women, but the statistics are converging ALL the time!

[Raj]

i totally agree with neeraja's point of view...

if justification is the only thing necessary to prove a point, then we can justify each and every crime in this world.

sex before marriage is a unfaithful to do, no less than a sin.